Do Atheists ever doubt their belief?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Captain Kremmen, Nov 20, 2008.

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  1. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong!

    Dictionary.com

    Belief:

    1, something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
    2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
    3. confidence; faith; trust

    knowledge:

    1. acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things.
    2. familiarity or conversance, as with a particular subject or branch of learning: A knowledge of accounting was necessary for the job.
    3. acquaintance or familiarity gained by sight, experience, or report


    There is a huge difference.
     
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  3. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    What beliefs? That the Sun will rise in the morning, and set in the evening?

    That if I jump, gravity will bring me back to Earth?

    What beliefs could I, as an atheist, challenge?
     
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  5. Mr. Hamtastic whackawhackado! Registered Senior Member

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    geeser-tell me then, how you can have 100% surety in any knowledge? Definitions are very poor explanations of philosophy, but using yours, it appears that belief is a prerequisite to knowledge. They are seperate words, but entangled states.
     
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  7. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    I'm just wondering if a better title for the thread would have been.
    "Do atheists ever doubt their disbelief?"

    Agnostics would be even worse off.
    "Do agnostics ever doubt their doubt of belief or unbelief"

    There is probably a special place in Hell, (or, alternatively, non-existence) for agnostics.
     
  8. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Why do you care what atheists do or don't do?
     
  9. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    And why do you care whether I care or not?
     
  10. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    Of course, when you have no hard evidence for something then there is plenty of room for doubt. The same reasons that Christians or any religious person might doubt the existence of their god/s, are typically similar to why an atheist might think that perhaps there is a god/s. Sometimes I catch myself thinking "am I wrong?" but the thought is usually fleeting.
     
  11. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

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    No, not exactly, it could be that your belief never goes any further than that, due to lack of evidence and thus remains simply a belief.
    Only slightly, as stated above. and especially not in regard to your previous post IE "Knowing something with 100% certainty qualifies as belief." this simply is wrong, as I've shown.
     
  12. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    I would not go out of my way to apply science to the question of supernatural creatures if so many religionists, at least here in the USA, were not trying to apply their preposterous religious bullshit to the question of science. We recently had an entire state government briefly forced to treat so-called "creation science" as though it were a respectable scientific theory in children's schoolbooks. This is not something that we can afford to politely sit around and watch happen.
    That would be a perfectly lovely situation, but it is not the one in which we are living, at least here in the USA and in much of the world. Two enormous factions of religionists, the Christians and Muslims, "believe" that it is their sacred duty to force their beliefs on the rest of us. Evangelical religion is not something that can simply be brushed off graciously in the name of tolerance, because evangelical religionists do not "believe" in tolerance. If you're not a Christian or a Muslim, then I have no quarrel with you. At least not a rigorous one who believes that violating the rights of the rest of us is justified by the need to save us from Hell. But many Americans are Christians and Muslims and do believe that violating our rights is justified, and I insist with extreme and righteous prejudice that they fuck off because that belief in their right to violate my rights is incompatible with the American way of life.
    No, I won't say that philosophy is useless. I might say that philosophy is useless in the context of scientific inquiry, except that it is clearly not. Philosophy is like mathematics, a tool that can be used in the service of science. Logic is philosophy, in fact in many universities the Philosophy 101A course is Logic because if you don't understand and practice logic you won't be much of a philosopher. Many of the principles that comprise the scientific method are grounded in logic, such as the Rule of Laplace (extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence) and Occam's Razor (it's sensible to always investigate the simplest hypothesis first). In fact my statement in my previous post of the fundamental principle upon which science and the scientific method are based is a philosophical statement.
    Yes. But accepting something as true without evidence is irrational faith, whereas accepting something as true with evidence is at least rational faith and at most proper science.
    Huh? Not in a place of science you bloody well can't, even assuming you meant to say "evidence" rather than "proof." You'd be saying that the existence of the natural universe is dependent on the existence of supernatural forces, and unless you've succeeded where hundreds of generations of your religionist ancestors have failed you have no evidence of the existence of supernatural forces, much less of their ability to affect the natural universe.
    Your logic is getting inscrutable there. Could you possibly restate that? It doesn't really make sense.
    You don't understand science if that's what you think. Nothing can be proven in science. Things can only be disproved. A correct statement of my philosophy is that I do NOT believe in things for which there is no evidence. This is the second time in your post that you have muddled the distinction between proof and evidence, and I begin to wonder if you really understand the difference.
    You've lost yourself in your own muddle. The correct statement of my philosophy is that I do not believe in things for which there is no evidence, and I accept as true beyond a reasonable doubt but not infallibly true things for which there is evidence of weight commensurate with the extraordinariness of their nature. There is no inconsistency there. Again, it's not the way this element of the scientific philosophy is customarily stated but there's still nothing remarkable about it.
     
  13. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    no.

    atheism is not a claim that something exists. therefore, the lack of evidence leads to lack of belief. perhaps I should have made it clear in my first post.
     
  14. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, I would say it is now supported by evidence. There have been rigorous studies on prayer. Evolution doesn't leave room for intelligent intervention. Physics hasn't noticed anything miraculous that would be necessary for reality as we know it to occur.
     
  15. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    I agree, but depending on how you look at it, that can still be called a lack of evidence. however, if you look at it in terms such that failing a test is evidence against existence, then you can say that there IS evidence for atheism. it's semantics really.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Belief is present when there is lack of evidence. That is the definition of belief.
     
  17. John99 Banned Banned

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    Do Atheists ever doubt their belief?

    Of course they do.
     
  18. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think so. I believe plenty of things that have evidence for them. blind faith is believing without evidence.
     
  19. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    I usually avoid simply saying ditto but Fraggle sometimes expresses my thoughts exactly yet with more detail than I usually use.

    “ Originally Posted by scorpius
    I have no beliefs,
    I know xian god isnt real,nor can be, anymore then square circles can exist. ”

    No, that wasn't a contradiction. There are a few things which are logicly selfevident including the impossibility of a square circle.
    He didn't fire the 1st shot. You did by incorrectly declaring the 1st shot had been fired.
    1111
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2008
  20. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    You are FULL of it & it prevents you from thinking.

    Do atheists ever doubt their lack of belief in cruel absurd fantasy? Most don't. I doubt any do.
    You seem to want to treat disbelief as belief. Ridiculous.
    Atheists aren't worried with special places in absurd cruel fantasy. I doubt agnostics are.
    There would be no special place in nonexistence. There would be no place at all.
    1111
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2008
  21. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    I don't.

    I'm only curious about why you care. If you don't then I could not care less.

    Why do you care what atheists do or don't do?
     
  22. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    The Holy Babble commands them to go forth & preach the gospel to every creature.
    1111
     
  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    I absolutely never doubt that logic & compassion are the 2 most important things in life & that religions I've looked at much have little of either. I have no doubt that after the study I have made of religion, there's not much reason for me to look at still others to see if they're much different.
    I have no doubt that life is rough & much of it seems inexplicable & many many people can't handle not knowing & they must convince themselves & others that they know things they can't possibly know.
    I have no doubt that eternal torture for any thing(s) 1 could do in 100 years or less here is the cruelest idea ever to form in the mind of man.
    I have no doubt that conformism, xenophobia & other fears cause people to try to control others, make them adopt their ways & punish those who are different.
    I have no doubt that compared to what we have or have had, we could have a much better chance of a paradise here if only people would give up superstition & fear & grow up to care about each other & get along together.
    1111
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2008
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