Do Androids dream of electric sheep?

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by Stryder, Sep 18, 2001.

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  1. kmguru Staff Member

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    Welcome to Sciforums, rakeyj

    The need for humans to dream is a biological one, as has been rightly pointed out this will not be so for AI beings.

    You may find out that, a true AI that is equal to and/or higher than a model human may have a similar need...in Man's image... (which is in God's image...)
     
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  3. rakeyj Registered Senior Member

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    and what possible need would it have for dreams, we need it so that the chemicals can be regenerated. There is also the change of memories from short term to long term and similar functions but these will not be needed for a sentient being. They will have programmed functions they will not need time as such to contemplate the days occurances. The idea of them having a function that manifests like our idea of dreaming is one which seems obscure to me. I do not believe that it would be inefficient and that is the purpose of a sentient as i perceive it. Also on this regard a quick question to all what about the monsters of the id, is not the dream state where they live, and so is it desirable for sentient beings to have access to such horrors?
    Oh and why would we want to make a sentient being in our image we can't exactly be pruod of our image especially these times?
     
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  5. kmguru Staff Member

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    Majority of the dreams I remember is about solving complex what if scenarios and alternate life styles and sometimes for enjoyment. If, I am an AI, I want the same functions too...and if someone says, I can not have it, I want it more...
     
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  7. rakeyj Registered Senior Member

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    i do see what you mean, but going back to my example of the AI being designed for looking after children do you really want it dreaming of being a air hostess?
     
  8. kmguru Staff Member

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    Since all learned knowledge should be transferred to the new version, why not? If imagination and innovativeness has to become the property of the third or tenth generation of AI, then it is a part of and must be a part of growth and development...

    Even if an AI can not have sex physically, there is always a virtual world for the AI...that is what the dreams are made of.

    In another thread, we talked about how, some humans (including yours truely) can set up scenarios and actually control that dream...
     
  9. rakeyj Registered Senior Member

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    good points kmguru

    You have a valid point but if you were designing a sentient beings would you really want it to pass on its experiences to the next generation AI. I'm not sure if i would want that.
    The sex idea is strange to me i never imagined AI and sex thsi maybe just me but i don't see what they would get from it.
    I think my problem in this discussion is that i think of AI being in existance solely for a purpose, and not just as another entity. If as in my thoughts they are just there for a job then dreams are unnecessary but if they are to be a seperate individual entity then i can see your points.
    Oh and on the dreams I also can manipulate my dreams.
     
  10. kmguru Staff Member

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    I think, I understand what you are getting at. Your points are valid for the first few generation of intelligent robots. Once they develop cognitive thinking on par with humans, then the subsequent generations will evolve on their own and surpass human intelligence. Why, because, even if we want to increase our IQ, we can not, because we are limited by the hardware design (I mean within the same generation). On the otherhand, AIs will grow on Moores law or faster with incredible amount of information available to them to process a billion times faster.

    So, you are right for the first few generations. After that, all bets are off...they will be a whole different specis with human minds converging in to an AI system.
     
  11. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I think the way this discussion has head we should define AI. (I mean WE as myselves and anyone else adding to this thread, not a Backslash WE)

    The way I percieve AI (Artificial Intelligence) is a Computer or matrix of computers that has been given algorythms to define it's own intelligence. When people speak of AI's as doing a specific task, I don't tend to think of them as continuing like a glorfied calculator because we already have machines that process data that we feed it, and they don't have their own ideas or opinions or follow what rules they create.

    When I think of AI, I think of a machine that borders on Sentient, that has the ability to be designated not a singular task but a group of tasks similar to a Job. (namely, Systems administrators or Virtual information desk personnel, perhaps even at ticket counters or a judge)

    A dream state as Kmguru pointed out could be handy for a system, afterall us humans need sleep because our systems need to repair (and can become polarised) And I put forwards some thoughts that some naptime would be like a CPU lowering it's usage due to overheating.

    Possibly if it's similar to a system I once heard about that used cells in a block (possibly even bacteria/algae) as it's processor with electromagnetics stimulating a cellular memory. It would need sleep (time to regenerate) and would be cost effective, although it's processing capacity wouldn't be upgradible (without the right steriods)

    Kmguru mention AI sex.... Well there is a point to this:

    Us humans have 5 senses, Touch, taste, sight, smell and hearing. An AI in a limited system might only have a few of these (or equivelant) senses, a dreamstate would allow something more to occur as an AI could have the other senses but not physical ones and then when placed into a virtual world that runs through some network, it could then be opened up to the other sensations from other systems that are hooked to its network.

    It's virtual presence could also allow humans to access the system, and interact with the AI's that could increase their abilities.

    An AI isn't simply something you can decide that you've loaded it with the german dictionary on and you want to uninstallthe dictionar because you speak english. That you can leave to the Bot's, Agent's and Spiders that are already available and do SET tasks.
     
  12. kmguru Staff Member

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    Thank you Stryderunknown, you did a great job explaining the landscape. Even when I have debates about AI with knowledgeable people in the Computer Industry , I have trouble making them understand that as soon as you create or are responsible for the creation of the first generation AI, any future generation can only be better, faster, smaller etc etc just in a few years. So debating the shortcomings of a first generation AI is not productive. Whatever shortcomings will change in a very short order. It goes like this:

    1x, 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x, 32x, 64x, 128x, 256x, 512x, 1024x, 2048x.....etc. doubling in every 18 months or so....
     
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