Discussion: lixluke interviews sisyphus__ about truth

Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by disease, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. disease Banned Banned

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    Moderator note: This thread is for discussion of the debate between lixluke and sisyphus__ on truth. The debate thread can be found here:

    [thread]89104[/thread]


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    Proposition: there is nothing which is absolutely true, therefore no absolute truth.
    Corollary: Truth is always relative. Indeed without falsity there would be no truth.

    Conjecture: lixluke will not be able to disprove the above proposition (i.e. show it's false).
     
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  3. disease Banned Banned

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    This should say: "The nonexistence of absolute truth is a logical necessity. It is logically necessary that truth be relative to falsity."

    Since lixluke is determined to approach the subject without using logic, but some completely arbitrary ersatz that can't withstand any real enquiries, he will probably never understand truth, or logic. He needs to drop the "I'm the only one who knows anything" attitude, and accept there's a possibility he's got the wrong idea.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
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  5. disease Banned Banned

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    Apparently, there's a question that "still remains". Presumably that means: "to be answered"?

    I wonder what the question is though? Is it an absolutely true question, perhaps?
     
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  7. disease Banned Banned

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    Wrong. The claim that truth is absolute, is stark-raving mad, utterly loony, and ultimately meaningless, like most of the things you post.
    There is no such thing as "logic" in your mind, or in anything you've posted. You have no idea what logic is.
    You have never answered any question, and you aren't going to start answering any. It's a waste of time asking you anything, because you don't know what a question is, either. You have no cause to ask anything, you aren't expecting any answers, are you? Why ask questions if you know all there is to know?
    All you appear to know is how to keep repeating the same meaningless, illogical arguments, that you can't explain.
     
  8. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Quite true. LOL
     
  9. Zap Facts > Opinions Registered Senior Member

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    Two rational and non-deluded people are sitting across from each other, with a book on a table to one side of them.

    One of them says, sincerely, 'the book is to my right.'.

    The other says, sincerely, 'the book is to my left.'.

    Both are true statements, and objective. If one knows the speaker's location, one can then calculate the direction of the book, without actually being that person - or without even being in that person's location.

    If one of these persons says, sincerely, 'My favourite colour is green', that is objectively true as well. It is objectively true that their favourite colour is green. Nothing in the statement implies that everyone's favourite colour is green. It is a very, very petty objective truth, but is one nonetheless.

    If a third person walks into this scenario and says, sincerely, 'A magical flying teapot created the universe and loves everyone', then they are objectively false. But could this be said to be, at least, subjectively true? No. Whilst the subjective does indeed relate to perspective, it is insufficient to override the nature of truth being actual and non-contradictory. It is therefore absurd to say that 'it is true for you', if one is not describing a fact or condition which could be objectively phrased, ie, 'John Smith is in pain'; 'Jane Bloggs is in love', etc.

    Note that saying 'John Smith believes in a magical flying teapot which created the universe and loves everyone' is objectively true - since it includes the word, 'believes' - to disconnect the observation from the claim.

    To describe truth as always absolute - (perfect, complete, etc), is not an incredible proposition. After all, we do not define truth as only the facts we know. Hence phrases like, 'let's discover the truth'. To say that doing so is 'stark-raving mad, utterly loony, and ultimately meaningless' demonstrates a lack of attendance on your part to reality or nuance.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  10. disease Banned Banned

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    Yes it is, if you then cannot provide a single example of an absolutely true something or other.

    Can you support your proposition, that it isn't an incredible proposition, then? What would you classify as an absolutely true fact, or observation? How would you classify it, in relation to what other absolute truth?
    When did I say that? I said it was meaningless, loony etc, to describe truth as absolute, because truth, collectively, is objective. Otherwise it's individually subjective.

    lixluke can say the subjectivism is false, but he can't demonstrate the truth of that proposition without being subjective (assuming he's an individual).
    In short, there is no absolute truth, anywhere. There is objective truth however, which is true for any subject (i.e. is subjectively true), as your post implies. Ironic that lixluke has stated "this is 100% true", when it says he's wrong about the logic of 'truth'.

    Truth is relative, to falsity and the 'truth' of other truths/falsities. Always has been.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  11. disease Banned Banned

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    lixluke: you have no regard for logic, or for the fact that you are only 1 person, not billions of people.

    But that hasn't stopped you deciding what billions of people should think.

    You missed me, somehow - I don't believe a word of any of your posts (I was going to say drivel).
    You aren't interested in anything, except for subjectively repeating yourself so we can see that, objectively. I thought you said truth wasn't subjective?
     
  12. disease Banned Banned

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    What a waste of time.
     
  13. Zap Facts > Opinions Registered Senior Member

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    Withdrawn, sorry - I thought these posts were all being flushed down the memory hole.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2008
  14. disease Banned Banned

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    Truth cannot be deleted...
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Which idiots?
     
  16. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    Truth is not deleted yay.

    Have faith in me guys.... I just fool around too much. But if he decides to throw the good ol' 1 2 punch, I'll throw a huge mountain of words describing things which I don't desire to do when goofing off. Like how all of philosophy is entirely different than him kind of things. He appears to disagree with this and so it's difficult to state it.
     

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