Discussion: Is pedophilia pseudoscience?

Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by James R, Feb 25, 2009.

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  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    This thread is for discussion of the related debate between ancientregime and James R. Anybody may comment on or discuss the debate here.

    [thread=90901]Debate: Pedophilia is pseudoscience[/thread]
    [thread=90786]Proposal: Is pedophilia pseudoscience[/thread]
     
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  3. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Question for Ancient Regime.

    Where exactly is your evidence that children manipulated into participating in sex acts with an adult, only feel revulsion because they have been brainwashed into doing so??
     
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  5. ancientregime Banned Banned

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    I assume you think that every child that learn about sex from an adult must be being manipulated?

    Not all are manipulatated. Humans have this thing that you may want to know about, because it seems you have a closed mind. It's called DISCOVERY. Guess what? There is nothing wrong with discoverring a way to pleasure yourself or others. You are obvious hung up on sexuality and believe thier is something fundametnally wrong with it.

    When you learn how to call something exactly what it is (instead of what you have been brainwashed to feel) you look sex the way nature expresses it, not the way abject morality imposes it's idea upon it:

    All the chemicals released produce euphoric and bonding feelings. This is represented as a psychological state. The body feels good. The mind represent that wonderful feeling. That's actually what they are learning about.

    Do you have the ability to show, that they really should be feeling repulsed? No. You don't. Because all you have is a moral idea that you are imposing on a pleasurable act. Children would think of things naturally, which is the superior way to think, because they are filled with lies. But... danger, danger...

    ...someone like comes along and begins you emotional abuse doctrine. You tell the child they should ignore those natural feelings (somehow nature is wrong) and instead should feel what you were brainwashed to feel about it: repulsion.


    Here is a great article for tampering minds that want to know.
     
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  7. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    No, dude. I think that a child who HAS SEX WITH AN ADULT has obviously been manipulated, coerced, or otherwise induced to do something to which they are too young to consent.

    I know that, thanks, I'm 18, I've been through early puberty like everyone else.

    Oh hell no I'm not. I would love to have sex more often. With a male my own age, a sexually mature one, not a child.

    Nature, at least in normal individuals, tells us to seek a sexually mature mate, not a prepubescent child.

    Go find me someone who was made or told to have sex with an adult as a child, and ask them if they found it pleasurable.

    See above.

    Show me one victim of a pedophile who found it natural and pleasurable.
     
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    ancientregime i think you are confusing terms because the media confuses the terms all the time. As james stated pedophila is PRE pubesent, a 16 year old who is below the age of concent screwing someone who is over the age of concent is illegal (assuming 16 is below the age of concent which its not everywhere) but you could well argue that it shouldnt be and doesnt harm the person involved. However you are arguing PEDIOPHILA which is a compleatly different kettle of fish

    to both yourself AND james, i take issue with both your comments assume that the only physical harm is direct. Yes penitrating a baby (this is pediophila you know ancientregime) WILL cause physical harm no matter how small the mans penis is but assume for instance that it causes no harm to an 8 year old. The risks of pregnancy and STD's still exist, does an 8 year old have the ability to access the risks of pregnancy and decide in an informed way that its acceptable? Ok yes by definition if they are able to fall pregant then they arnt prepubessant but STD's are still a risk. Can an 8 year old understand the risk of AIDS and take apropriate action? Can an 18 MONTH old?

    i would contest that answer is a resounding NO

    james one further point specificially to you, your ages are wrong. Pubity onset is from 8-11 so to be PRE pubessant (which is what pediophila is) you are talking about children younger than that age group.
     
  9. ancientregime Banned Banned

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    Not all of them. Despite your morally narrow point of view, children do have sexual urges and do not need to be manipulated, coerced or induce to want to satisfy their own urges.

    Children are old enough to consent to sex. They can feel good from it, they like it, and it does not harm them.

    So you call yourself a child at 18? Isn't that what we were talking about?


    Again, we were talking about children, confusing yourself again with a child.


    You are wrong. Naturally, there is nothing wrong with any humans who consensually have sex. Your talking from a moral pulpit. Hallelujah! Praise ye be Jesus. Are you going to shake, quake, leap , jump, roll and bark next?

    I'm in my late 30's, so I've been around the block a few times and traveled many times, so I haven't been stuck in a small little world where the outside doesn't exist. Ever met someone who's read a book you haven't? That's like me an you, You know nothing about the books I've read. I've had
    lot of girlfriends that had it happen. Lost of friends that had it happen. The only abuse they felt was the fact it was taboo by their family or society. I had one friend who was raped repeatedly, and it was somepmr who people in the community would never expect it was. And btw, this rapist was the same age as the person they raped.

    That's impossible, because victims only are raped. You leave out the children who love sex. You wouldn't understand, they don't hang out with people like you. You only want to imprison their friends and family. They can see people like you from a mile away. Your ideas are nightmares to their lives.
     
  10. ancientregime Banned Banned

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    Most 8 year olds aren't having their periods. This is irrelevant.

    Disease is a danger of course. An 8 year could understand it as a danger. They may not be able to take appropriate actions.

    But the threat of contracting AIDS is not evidence that proves that sex itself is harmful, especially sex that does pass disease.

    Most people don't have HIV or AIDS. Only sex with someone who has AIDS is harmful. Most of the people involved in underage sex are family or friends. If friends or family did have a disease, they wouldn't give a child the disease. In rare cases, I'm sure it occurs.
     
  11. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    thats plainly false, AIDS may be rare but ALL STD's including AIDS and Hep ARNT rare, they are VERY common
     
  12. ancientregime Banned Banned

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    HIV/AID less that 1% of US population.

    Hep C is less that 2%.

    Still quite rare.
     
  13. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    oviously you dont know what your talking about

    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/chlamydia.htm
    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/figures/1.htm
    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/figures/5.htm

    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/gonorrhea.htm
    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/figures/13.htm
    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/figures/18.htm

    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/syphilis.htm
    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/figures/28.htm
    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/figures/33.htm

    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/other.htm
    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/other-figs.htm


    Personally i think these stats are wrong, HPV and Herpies are rated as the most prevelant in Australia as far as i know and i belive this would the case in the US. However these virus's are NOT reportable and poorly diognosed so acurate statistics are hard to come by.

    Would you like to re-evaluate your comments?
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    With other children. Not with adults.

    It is perfectly normal for children to experiment with other children and to touch themselves. What isn't normal is for an adult to feel aroused at children and actually want to have sex with them.

    Do you honestly think an 8 year old child (for example) isn't harmed by having sex with an adult? I mean obviously, you seem to think that children are fair game when it comes to sex. But think about it for a minute. What about babies? Toddlers? They are children too, aren't they? Toddlers often play with themselves.. it's normal for them to explore their bodies and it feels good to them. Does that mean that they are ready to have sex? Do you think an adult having sex with a toddler isn't sex abuse and that it's a pseudoscience? Don't you think that adults waiting to prey on a child's curiosity and natural urges is actually doing the child more harm than good? That instead of letting the child progress naturally and experiment at their own pace, they will find themselves going at the adult's pace. You don't think that would screw up their idea of sex?

    Children are not old enough to consent to sex with adults. Getting drunk feels good. Does that mean children should be legally allowed to drink or do drugs? No.

    Only sex with someone who has AIDS is harmful? What of other STD's? That's not harmful?

    How naive are you?

    Do you honestly think that a person who has sex with a child is going to care if they pass on an STD to that child? Do you really think that someone with an STD and finds children sexually attractive and has sex with children will have the morals to want to protect that child from their STD?
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I think comparing alcohol consumption to sex is a spurious analogy. Alcohol consumption is not a biological urge.
     
  16. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    This whole debate is a blight on Sciforums. There is no discussion to be had here. Ancient Regime is a sick fuck and the thread should be deleted. We should not entertain such a warped perspective.
     
  17. Enmos Staff Member

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    Neither is sex for kids.
     
  18. Enmos Staff Member

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    Ancientregime, how would you feel if it turns out that your 50 year old neighbor has been having sex with 8 year olds ?
    Do you have kids ?
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    http://books.google.com/books?id=ZsQ_RG_K-B0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=childhood sexuality

    I think the role of social conditioning seems very important:

    e.g.

    It would be interesting to see what happens in societies where shame and inhibition are not imposed on children.
     
  20. Enmos Staff Member

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  21. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    They don't have sexual urges like adults do. They are merely curious about their body. They touch their genitals for the same reason they explore the rest of their body. They are curious, and too young to be aware that their undeveloped penis or vagina is any more a private part than the nose or ears.

    Learn some fucking reading comprehension. I did not describe myself as a child.

    You sure about that? You sure you're not just superimposing your own views on them?

    IT IS NOT CONSENSUAL. THEY ARE TOO YOUNG TO CONSENT.

    THEY DON'T EXIST.

    Children do not love sex. Like I said - they play with their genitals out of exploration and curiosity, not because they're old enough to be horny.
     
  22. Bells Staff Member

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    That's seen as being normal behaviour.. children will explore their own bodies.. They do it even as babies. Hell, even in the womb. I remember an ultrasound at 36 weeks with my eldest and he was holding onto his willy.

    What ancient regime is saying goes well beyond what is seen as normal behaviour and self discovery in children.
     
  23. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    If a "Child" consents to any act, it means nothing for they aren't an "Adult" and when they reach "Adulthood" they can pretty much change their entire reasoning behind anything they did as a "Child".

    If they are coerced into some "Sexual" act as a Child, it could effect them in their Adult years, it could haunt them, torment them and degrade them as a person. In fact if they can prove that they were coerced as a minor and they can direct the law to the person responsible, it can still be seen as "Statutory Rape" even years later.

    This is the reason that Children should be protected from such actions made towards them. Someone's sick sexual urge is no justification to force such cruel, demeaning, in human torture on them at that time or in that persons future. Anyone that believes otherwise really should seek mental help from Psychiatrists (That itself is not Debatable).
     
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