Did Pres. Obama throw Israel under the bus?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by quantum_wave, May 20, 2011.

?

Did he or didn't he?

  1. No

    75.0%
  2. Yes

    25.0%
  1. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    Add the links to the original source. I shouldn't have to search high and low for something you say is there. I looked for Le Monde interview and its not archived. If you can find these sources then list the links. I mean its your assertion, so the onus is on you.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,045
    Ok Ms Lucy

    how was your weekend by the way- i trust you had fun, i wen to chessington World of adventures with the wife and kids, we all had good fun!

    Anyway here is one link

    http://www.wrmea.com/jews_for_justice/1967war.html

    If you typeinto google ISrael wanted the 1967 war (or soemthing like that) you will get loads more.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    My point to you SAM is that your analogy doesn't hold water. My point SAM is that Jewish immigration to Palestine did not begin after WW II. It has been going on for a very long time. And it did not begin with violence.

    If you are looking to bear grudges, any one can use history to find grudges against virtually everyone. But carrying grudges and continual feuding does not bring peace and prosperity. It brings death and destruction.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    And? What does this have to do with European Jews unilaterally declaring a Jewish state in a land where the Jews were 7% of the population and dispossessing the natives with violent, militant force?

    Grudges? This is an ongoing violent military occupation we are talking about not a schoolyard bully who took your lunch money several decades ago.

    What would you do if the United States was violently occupied by religious fanatics who wanted to establish a racist state and dispossess the inhabitants?
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    No SAM it is a grudge. And the US is occupied by religious fanatics.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    I don't suppose you have heard of the "social conservatives" in the US? You know, the same folks that fanatically support Israel?
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Alright. So let us say that most people have a "grudge" against being violently occupied by foreigners who possess and use WMDs against them based on notions of religious or racial entitlement . In that case, what do you suggest is the best solution to the problem. As I have already indicated, the unilateral declaration of a Jewish state by immigrant Jews from Europe in 1948 was followed by 40 years of resistance by the Palestinians. This availed them nothing. Then they resorted to violence, which availed them even less. Since the last two decades, they have been engaged in nonviolent demonstrations, or rather since 1948, however these are largely ignored by western media.

    Currently, apart from the 58% of historic Palestine which the UN donated to the European Jews to get rid of their Jewish Problems, European and American Jewish immigrants to Palestine control 100% of historic Palestine [there is about 2% made into a giant ghetto in Gaza and less than 20% in the hands of a puppet regime in the West Bank, the elected representatives and politicians all either kidnapped, with 40,000 arrests between 2000 and 2006 or killed, with over 300 assassinations in the same time].

    The native villages and towns are being replaced by Jews-only settlements which are armed localities expanding outward since the nakba when 700,000 inhabitants were dispossessed

    Currently the West Bank is being transformed from Palestinian villages to Jews only towns and settlements occupied by foreign Jewish immigrants on flights of religious fancy

    Meanwhile, the President of the United States has declared his support for this racist enterprise and will veto a Palestinian state along 1967 borders in September, while flapping his lips over the ongoing settlement enterprise, the killing of non-violent demonstrators [not that I have ever heard any reference to the attacks on demonstrators at Bilin by the US] and of course, the daily violence visited on civilians and funded by US taxpayers who also ensure the maintenance of the occupation arsenal.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Palestinian laborers walk past a billboard advertising a new housing project in the Jewish settlement of Maale Adumim in the occupied West Bank

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/05/20/obamas-support-israels-pre-war-167-borders/#ixzz1NC4PoOHD


    What are your thoughts on this, as an American?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2011
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    I think it's a distinctly one-sided summary. The Palestinians have proven to be just as, if not more fanatical about their own brand of Zionism, or Palestinianism. Both sides need to make radical compromises that they are not prepared to make, therefore more bloodshed will result.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    Kind of beside the point.

    The Palestinians are natives, just as a portion of Jews were native to the region. The influx of European Jews forced the Palestinians out and forced conflict to flourish and it continues to this day.

    You do realise that the expansion and settlements are against International law and aren't recognised or protected under international law, right?

    And the expansion continues with more people losing their homes as more settlement homes are built or more settlers take over the homes of previous occupants. It is illegal and a breach of basic human rights. It is no wonder that Palestinians do hold a grudge.

    Do you think it is the same?

    Do you think that the religious conservatives in the US today are taking over land of indigenous people to build settlements and forcing people out of their homes and banning them from using roads or being able to even have any form of freedom of movement, have soldiers take pot shots at children, be kept and forced into refugee camps without sufficient health care, clean water and have their sustenance counted like they are animals in a zoo? Or would such a thing be deemed a breach of your rights under your constitution?

    Until you find yourself being marched out of your home and whatever belongings you were able to take with you and sometimes at gunpoint because they wanted your land, then really, you can't exactly compare.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Bells,

    Two of the most powerful people in the republican party are Rupert Murdoch and Binyamin Milikovsky (aka Bibi Netanyahu) - both are foreigners but the republicans will never refute anything they say [see Romney's comment on Obama throwing Israel under the bus, over positions identical to Bush]

    Americans don't really have any clout with their representatives
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Bells, I am not taking up the Israeli banner. I am not justifying the atrocities committed by Israel or the Palestinians. I was just reminding SAM that there are two sides to this story.

    I am saying there is a point that in order to move forward, we need to stop living in the past and living in the present and for the future. At some point, if we ever want peace, we are going to have to learn to forgive the transgressions of the past in favor of a new begining. This endless finger pointing and violence which has become all to common in the Middle East is futile. It does not beget peace, only more violence, waste, heartbreak and dispair.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2011
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Okay, living in the present

    Q. What happens when a Palestinian farmer wants to water his fields in the West Bank [supposedly under US approved puppet regime rule]

    Answer: http://mondoweiss.net/2010/08/what-zionism-has-wrought.html

    The above video shows 5-year-old Khaled Jabari crying as the Israeli military takes his father away for stealing water. In fact, he was only trying to access water that had already been stolen by Kiryat Arba, a nearby Israeli settlement. Palestine Monitor reports:
    What do you recommend Palestinians do about these "grudges"? Especially considering that more and more of their villages are becoming Jewish only settlements from which they are excluded [actually shot at if they try to come back]
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    My thoughts on this are that Israel needs to stop the settlements and give them to the Palestinians. I also think that the Palestinians need to get a government that represents the interests of their people.
     
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    I suggest peaceful protest (e.g. Egypt).
     
  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Let's see, they can get fucked by the Israelis as described, or they can get fucked by Hamas, which will only force Israel towards a more hard line position.
     
  18. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    Well there are often other sides to these stories.

    Not being there it is hard to figure out what the TRUTH is.

    http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3910555,00.html

    http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/20...m-video-of-crying-palestinian-boy-was-staged/

    Arthur
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Indeed. You realise it is against international law for the occupying regime to steal the resources from the occupied territories? That all Israeli constructions in the occupied territories are completely illegal? It would be like your neighbor building a well inside your yard and using it to water his swimming pool and gardens and having you arrested if you try to use it. Only in this case, the neighbor has also built his home inside your yard

    You must visit the Jews Only settlement in Hebron in the occupied West Bank and tell me how you like it

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Last edited: May 23, 2011
  20. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    The occupiers have become permanent residents.
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    In the Jews Only settlements? How do you see that progressing for the Jews and the Palestinians?
     
  22. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    It's bad news for both.
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    I don't think so - in the long term social isolation is not good news for stability

    But yeah the speed at which Binyamin is working to demolish the two state solution is really astounding

    But it proves that if you want to manipulate Americans, money speaks the loudest.
     

Share This Page