ok then, established...proper and modest are relative. no. i think all of us are evil and stupid, and being lustful is one of the many ways we express that. they are different from me in that they are lustful, and either justifying it, or compensating for it, and i am not. only because of what i know about myself. so is that really judging? the bible is very clear about discernment, and about sin. can't it simply be a recognition? it isn't that i think i'm a better person, i just think i'm right about this. what do you think? do you think i'm right about this? no, i actually think that sex is the greatest gift god gave us next to jesus, and that we undervalue it. you can ask my husband if you want. he's a member here. rjr6. he doesn't post on here very much anymore. i can't promise a response but i'll mention it to him. honestly, the first time i had sex with my husband was within several hours of me meeting him in person for the first time. and while we had been speaking on the phone for several weeks, i didn't choose to have sex with him due to any physical or emotional attraction. at that point, i had been celibate for 8 years, and so that kind of attraction had been a mute point for quite some time. i had sex with him as an act of faith, and at that moment, i considered myself to be his wife, because of what i believe about sex, and because of what i believed about him. since then i have grown to be very physically and emotionally attached to my husband, but it still isn't why i have sex with him. i'm physically and emotionally appreciative of a lot of people, but those people aren't my husband, and i am not their wife. i have a responsibility towards that man, and i am very grateful to have the opportunity.