Did Jesus exist?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dinosaur, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    So that's a good reason why we should ignore religion and the crap they sprout

    America would have had a Declaration with the emphasis on the people ruling not a invisible sky daddy who needs to be worshipped and threatens hell if you are bad

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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    You are most welcome but I must confess it is raining here and I enjoy ranting on and on...I make things lenghty in the hope that no one will bother reading what I write.

    No Utopia does not exist and can never exist it is a dream of fundamentalist fools.
    But things can be different if not better.

    All I suggest is if humans can move past superstition it will hopefully release resources and expand thinking such that some unimagined benefits may occur.

    If nothung else resources consumed by religion may be used for greater benefit.

    Certainly we are not there yet. ... I think the removal of entitlement and the notion of us and them may enable us to opperate as a world unit capable of yet un imagined engineering feats perhaps ever moving some of us off the planet to cover against the next mass extinction that will no doubt occur.

    I would like for us to beat the respectable 2 million years the dinasours managed.
    We know what took them out and we already have a hint that we could beat such a disaster by putting humans in places other than just Earth.

    A space rock can take us out for example so it would be nice to put a few eggs in a few different baskets.

    Such thinking seems crazy but long term we need to be better than all the species who have become extinct.

    If you want to grab any biblical prophesy take the one that we go to heaven and make it happen...in various craft that will ensure humans may indeed live forever ...not individual humans but the species.



    I think Russia tried and failed...and that could be expected.

    Take something away and folk will want it back however let it die a natural death and once gone they may not miss it.

    Alex
     
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  5. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    The emphasis was on the individual. So important was the idea that they gave it the authority of God rather than the authority of the State. If your rights are given by God, no one on Earth can take them away, not even the State.
     
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Noooooooo I read it as was noted by the writer

    Sad really

    If your rights are given to yourself by yourself only yourself can take them away from yourself

    I would hope that under such a system a collective set of laws could be framed with a government appointed to manage. Manage the laws BUT no authority to change, delete or add laws

    THAT authority would be retained by the people

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    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  8. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    And they do manage them through the courts, as you probably know. The rights of individual are tested all the time.

    Even the authority of the people is limited in relation to individual rights.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Yes managed through the court. I have a vague idea that citizens initiated laws are few and far between those enacted by politicians

    I think citizens law would be clumsy and would perhaps have to be debated within set time frames and voted on over a set period by all citizens

    Each law should have a use by date along with a date given to begin to review for updates

    Any law not brought before court before its review date should be cancelled

    Lots more pie in the sky ideas but nice to think how things could be but not calculating down to the depth of - this will work

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  10. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    No one has an issue with the principle of having rules.
     
  11. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    The devil is Hate

    Hate was always dark (not evil) from his onstart and rules over Hell as Hades himself or the literal anti-Christ. Knowledge fell after a long time and is still one of YHWH's archangels. God had been for an eternity "always before" perfectly, and Lucifer was by his side the entire time, then something new occurred to the passive universe tainting Existence, "All Things," Nature, and Reality, and eventually even Omniscience was effected.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  12. Seaman Registered Member

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    Very little. The vague references may have been invented by scribes. For my part, I think it is difficult to explain the stories we have if some person that later became "God" if there was nobody. I suspect he was a rebel and was executed by the Romans for two reasons. I do not believe he was sent by God nor was he the son of God. It was quite common to call important figures a son of God and to call the desciples brother's.
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Hate is an emotion.
    So does that mean the devil is a mere emotion and not physical?

    In any event you miss my observation that it would seem that it is God who sends folk to hell and the devil is little more than the keeper of that realm.

    Thank you for your posts I enjoy trying to understand how others see the story.
    Alex
     
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    In the contex of other things you have said I find that most fascinating.
    Alex
     
  15. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    But what's the trade off? We've traded the clergy for bureaucrats, the churches for bureaucracies.
     
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps bureaucrats seek laws that are not motivated by a belief in God and that they seek to address issues that are somewhat more relevant to administration rather than weaving mere belief into whatever system they seek to administer.
    Clergy would seek to have shops closed on Sundays simply to fit their belief whereas a sensible bureaucrat may recognise the need of folk who work six days a week to shop on Sunday.
    To leave the clergy in the past was a giant step forward.
    Alex
     
  17. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe we gave them a different name and started calling them administrators.
     
  18. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    It's better, believe me.
     
  19. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I think we could call them something else but administrators is not what I have in mind.

    I can remember as a kid when things were still in the dark ages...yes I am that old..you could not buy petrol over Easter except for a very few places often many towns apart and certainly nothing on good Friday..and guess the only place open xmas day..the church..nothing else..how primative yet that happened in my life time....what a proposterious influence and you dont seem to be aware of how things would go down hill if the clergy had a say in such things.

    I lived next to the local police station which was next to the catholic church...my dad was mowing the lawn one Sunday and the priest walked down and told him even though he was not in his flock he had to tell him that he should do no work on Sunday. Aministrators!!! no, more like pretentious interferring rightious busy bodies.

    A poor girl who fell pregnant out of wedlock was hounded and hounded such that she took her own life...

    And a kid who questioned the priest about the flood and said it could not happen because the water had no where to go...clearly correct...got a flogging for his comment.

    You do realise there are places in the world where blasphamy carries the death penalty...thats where their rat bags take if if you lket them lose...and I suppose because terrorists are terrorists you forget what they are on about and why they do what they do...what is their justification you must know...and dont you think the nutters on our side if given half a chance would not kill non believers and anyone they thought was a sinner...get real...you defend the indefensible.

    I dont mind if they want to dress up in frocks and gowns and talk to invisable myths and follow all sorts of superstitious nonsence just keep it inhouse and stay away from wanting to turn everyone into sheep in the flock...and how appropriate is the word sheep for those poor devils these characters dominate...back then and maybe today members of the flock had to give the church 10% of their income... but clearly give the clergy an inch and they take a yard simply because they cant keep their beliefs to themselves and want all of us to follow their beliefs and live in a world they want.

    Look at birth control..what damn business is it of the church to invade peoples privacy like that...what a hide ..heck if they had any say they would tell you what under pants to wear..and fish on every Friday what crap...whoses business is it what I eat on Friday..and dont you come back and say "well thats a good way to ensure the populace gets their omeaga three"...because there is no justification for such arrogance and intrusive behaviour...they cant help themselves and I say keep them away from any power in public life.

    Or perhaps you think the way it is in some places around the world where these idiots hold power and control government is a good idea.
    Honestly just because you like religion please realise the very real danger of letting these characters drive the bus.

    Alex
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  20. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    So, do you think ideologies are dangerous in general, X? Not just religious ones?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Kind benevolent dictators who look after their subjects, live in a bog standard house among their subjects, with no security. Ensure the countries wealth is split as even as possible, with a cap on maximum wealth (which would include wealth outside the country)

    Know any of those?

    As a sort of side line .The new bible meusem. Did the Vatican send anything from their vast treasure trove of stuff to be put on display? Or keep everything to themselves?

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  22. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Absolutely none. Those that promise economic justice usually turn into economic misery. Venezuela comes to mind at the moment.

    That's a story I haven't been following. Should I assume the Catholic Church is the template for all Christian Faiths?
     
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Any ideologies that does not match mine is dangerous

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    Alex
     

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