Did Israel live in Egypt during the 12th dynasty ?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Richard777, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. Richard777 Registered Member

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    14
    There may be evidence to suggest that Hebrews were living in Egypt as free people during the earlier part of the twelfth dynasty.

    An Egyptian official named Khnumhotep is believed to have lived during the reign of pharaohs Amenemhet II and Senusret II.

    His tomb contains paintings of everyday life in Egypt. Two scenes show Semetic people (possibly Israelites) offering gifts (tribute, or tithes, or taxes) to Egyptian scribes. At this time the Hebrews were not enslaved. One scene includes women and children. This agrees with the scriptural account that the Israelites “became fruitful and began to increase greatly, and they kept on multiplying and growing mightier at an extraordinary rate” (Exodus 1:7). It would be unusual if this scene did not include children.

    The scene probably represents occasions familiar to Khnumhotep.

    Reference; http://newstuff77.weebly.com page; 14 12th Dynasty
     
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  3. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Can we distinguish between residents and merchants/ambassadors/etc.? No.

    Even if they were actually there we'd still have to flesh out the rest of the story, including the supernatural events, like the plagues.

    It therefore follows that this is not important news.
     
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  5. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    after a little reading on some Egyptian stuff i noticed there was quite a bit of modern documented destruction of carvings & art, historical content etc etc by the following new pharaoh.
    massive art-works left half complete after 1 pharaoh had died... etc etc...



    when the infant mortality was probably around 25%
    childhood mortality was probably around 45%

    subsistence farming & constant genocidal war tactics holds down population growth.

    that's not beginning to mention the ideas around medical technology, ancestral word of mouth herbalist medicines etc.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnum..._sStA_and_control_of_information_by_the_state

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnumhotep_and_Niankhkhnum#Manicurists,_hairdressers,_and_adorners

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  7. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Have you just imagined this from this evidence? How can I comment when you don't show the evidence?
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    35,776
    There is something about your thesis that is more significant to you than anyone else at hand; the two-page overview linked in the topic post does not clarify.

    The main burden will be historically reframing an ahistoric narrative; Abraham was born, as near as anyone can tell, just before the end of the Twelfth Dynasty. He did not, by tradition, enter the Covenant of Parts until 1743 BCE, and inasmuch as Egypt was in transition, it is uncertain by the record of the Thirteenth Dynasty period just who was on the throne in Egypt at the time. Amenemhat I reigned 1991-62 BCE; Joseph, by tradition, was born in 1562 BCE, and sold in 1545 BCE. If we rewind to Melchizedek, King of the Jebusites, though, and recall the priesthood passing to Abraham (Gen. 18.20, Ps. 110.4), we eventually get around to eyeing the definition of the Hebrews. Israel—i.e., per thread title—is to Jacob, ca. 1590 BCE. The idea that Jebusites in particular and Canaanites general were present in Egypt circa Twelfth Dynasty doesn't seem so controversial.
     
  9. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    This looks like an advert for that site to me.
     
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  10. Richard777 Registered Member

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    14
    It may be that baby Moses was adopted by a daughter of pharaoh Senusret III.This pharaoh had at least four daughters; Sithathor, Menet, Senetsenebtysy, and Mereret. They probably outlived their father and were eventually interred in the royal burial complex at the pyramid of Senusret III. These daughters had the title “kings daughter” and this agrees with biblical terminology (Exodus 2:9).


    Biblical events may be distributed over the twelfth dynasty as follows;


    Pharaoh Years Possible Events

    Amenemhet I 29 Joseph appointed as overseer, Jacob enters Goshen, Jacob dies

    Senusret I 45 Israel Prospers

    Amenemhet II 34 Joseph dies

    Senusret II 19 Israel increases greatly, Khnumhotep II dies

    Senusret III 39 Israel enslaved, Moses adopted by daughter of Pharaoh

    Amenemhet III 46 The oppression continues, Moses flees to Midian

    Amenemhet IV 9 The Exodus, collapse of the dynasty

    Sobekneferu 4 End of dynasty

    8 rulers 225 total years of rule (28 year average rule)

    Reference; http://newstuff77.weebly.com page 14 The 12th Dynasty
     
  11. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    No, there were no Jewish people and certainly no Israel at that time. There might have been Semitic people, but that's not the same thing.
     

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