'Devil in WTC Smoke' photo

Shamoo, Xev ... to all God's children--er, something ....

Shamoo

What, then, is the purpose of the Devil?

Xev

As macabre as it is to bring up here, what about rape victims? After all, as society generally has it ... oh, hell, I won't even say it. But you get the point.

Besides, I'm actually with you on that point:

Because you're right ... this seems to be the end result of it.

We should try, one day, a philosophical topic on the nature of Evil:

What is actually important in the above extract is just how much is there. I mean, he goes on about this, trying to put into context how people arrived at the Devil. And no, it's not supposed to make logical sense. But sympathetically, understanding the frailty of the human conscience, it does, in fact, make some sense. It would be quite interesting to see our fellow posters' standards for good and evil.

In all my time at Sciforums, not one Christian has given me a logical reason for (speak nothing of proof) the Devil. And, if I might take the liberty of the image, perhaps that is the Devil's secret. By placing the burden of evil on an irrelevant concept, we largely surrender our ability to counteract or even cope with evil. Although I can't find my copy of Brust's To Reign in Hell, there is an interesting blurb on the back cover that may have come from Brust himself (or else, I think, Zelaszny): From all my readings on the devil, two things are clear: God is all-powerful and Satan is no fool. There seems to be a contradiction here. (Take that as a slight paraphrase until I find the quote.)

To hold "evil" and "sin" as synonymous for the sake of the point: Tay-Sachs? Ebola? The simpler form of the question is why God, knowing that humankind would fall at Eden, went forward with the plan. Should we say that God could not create the cosmos any other way? What, then, restrains God? It seems that, should we subscribe to the Bible, we are unacceptable to God by his will, and we suffer by his will. The Devil--such as this topic started with--is a useless concept at best, and a sad diversion at worst. It seems to me a little like a father who wants his kid's first job to suck so that the kid can have the same "character-building" experience he did. And I've known a few of those people, who delight in their children's suffering. At least they have a prominent role model; that's some excuse, but it doesn't cut it. Hell, I've heard fathers argue that $6.00 an hour is worth being groped and harassed by your boss. ("Are you sure that's what's really going on? Maybe you're perceiving it wrong .... You need this job, you know.")

Or is that also macabre? Let's all have a groan.

One of the reasons that I accept the definition that God is greater than that which can be conceived is that it takes issues of morality out of God's hands and returns it to human beings. One cannot understand the purpose of evil, nor can one, with such a God, quantify evil. Therefore we perceive suffering and, in our human sympathies, attempt to alleviate it. It only matters how one got hurt insofar as one must determine how to alleviate or end the suffering. But the "why is this happening" aspect of evil is a mere distraction. To focus on "defeating the Devil" in any direct sense is an excuse to allow the continuation of suffering. Technically there is no evil except that upon which we agree. Wipe out a million babies in a holocaust of fire--yeah, I'm right there with you that it's horrible, but what difference does it make to the Universe itself? It only matters to us, e.g. If a tree falls in the forest ....

Of the pareidoliacs, though, I think my favorites both come from Washington state. In one case, Catholic Hispanic field workers (as well as white, apocalyptic-Protestant citizens) flocked to see the image of the Virgin in the iridescent sheen on the back of a highway sign outside Yakima, Washington. In the other, there was an image of the virgin appearing on a wall in the rectory of a church. And here is where the basic scientific process pays off. The Reverend, after seeing the phenomenon several times, had a flash of insight about the conditions and timing of the apparition. His experiment proved correct: the image of the Virgin on the wall was an amorphous pattern in a lampshade--when the sun hit the lampshade at the right angle, it projected light on the wall. When turned to a specific position, the reflection resolved the shape of the Virgin Mary. Simple interferences such as a bird flying through the sunlight outside the church could cause motion in the light, implying a living sense. But, yeah, the reverend figured it out. A somewhat-sensible man, he could not abide such idiotic faith.

But soon enough, we'll be able to look at each other and exclaim, "Christ on a Chalupa!"

thanx,
Tiassa

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Russel, Jeffrey Burton. Lucifer: The Devil in the Middle Ages. Ithaca: Cornell Univ. Press, 1984

 

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Something doesn't ring right

Asguard

I gotta ask:

Is this Biblical? And how are the strictures of faith excluded from human destiny in this Universe?

thanx much,
Tiassa

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Sorry im now drunk

So please put your question in simple language

Yes i took it from the Ark story

 

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I see ...

Asguard

Simple language: Isn't threatening or bribing people to affect their behavior (e.g. the promise of salvation) interfering in their destinies in this Universe? After all, those destinies are determined by the choices made, and if one is influencing those choices ....

Noah's Ark

I only point out two separate translations because the counterpoint is that I've never viewed the Noah's Ark story as broadly as you have presented. God decided not to wreck the world again, but nothing seems said of interfering in human destiny. Toward that point, I might list my Lutheran upbringing, Catholic school, time spent among Quakers, exposure to Baptists, a book or pamphlet here or there, and available critical commentaries on the Bible. I don't reject your interpretation, but merely protest on those grounds; I might be missing something, though. I'm perfectly aware of that.

But, yeah. Isn't the whole redemption bit interfering in our destinies?

thanx much,
Tiassa

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Maybe i missinterpred that story but i felt that the coverant with noah was that god wouldn't condem HUMANITY again (not in this life)

 

I'll have to agree with Xev on this. Where was "God" on 9/11???

 

Very interfering Tiassa, I mean Biblically speaking God is all knowing, he wrote the plan already....right Christians? Why would he write something so evil in his plan???

 

Asguard:

Don't be sorry! The free will paradox only begins to make sense under the influence of alchohol!

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Tiassa:

We're talking about 9/11, and Tay-Sachs. It's already macabre.

Society's estimation of rape victims 'asking for it' is for shit. There is no way in hell a twelve year old or 89 year old can 'ask' to be raped. And yet we find such victims.

I see your point - was America 'asking for' 9/11? Even if you believed that, either through 'turning our back on God' (as Robertson put it) or through our "imperealism" (as some put it), America deserved or provoked 9/11 - well -

The fact remains that innocents suffered.

I'm preaching to the choir with you, Tiassa, but I wanted to make that clear.

One might also note God's various covenents with various Isrealites and with Isreal herself (in the OT).

 

The bible is not true in a historical sense

Why CAN'T the world support an infinite ammount of people, like heaven. Isn't god smart enough to design such a world. Why can't dying be painless? People say that god is testing us on this planet, that we must CHOOSE between good and evil. Why not just cut the crap and make us good? If someone is evil, is it their fault? They say only 2 things affect your mind, genetics and environment. Does it really take an eternity to absolve sin? I've seen documentaries on prisons with people in there for 40 years, and they DO regret their actions, they are not just faking it. And torcher, in hell, is never the solution. Smart god. Send us to destroy the world... Don't you think god gets board with all you goodie goodies? Who made you the god's ambassader? If he wants me to believe in 1 of thousands of stupid religeons, he can come down and tell me. Also, don't talk of eden until you've read Kings. Here you will find all the evidence you need that neither of the 2 creation stories are true, it actually tells you in fact that they were fabricated durring and after king solomon. I'm gonna impeach god, kick him out of office. He's had to long of a lazy, evil term, and gets praised for stuff he doesn't do.

Also, I believe that everything before the reign of David is fiction. That means creation, noah, moses, yeah, all the way to david. Much of the stuff after that is fiction too.

 

Read C.G. Jung's Answer to Job, It has a lot of interesting thoughts on the subjects of Satan and evil in the world.

 

Check out this picture of a football field.

I saw this at randi.org

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?grid2map?X=533238&Y=168339&arrow=Y&zoom=1&largeuk=P

 

On the original subject.........

.......I saw a shovel that had Elvis' face on it

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Mona Lisa????

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"So terrorism is God's way of keeping the population down? Wouldn't it be simpler just to keep people from having children, rather than killing them? "

And ironically enough, christians don't believe in birth control...

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One reason the population increases so much in less developed countries is because the christians invaded and told everyone not to use birth control, and then science made people live longer. The statement that the above quote refers to is just too ironic for me, i think i'll laugh myself to sleep now.

 

actually AIDS is humans fault, if that french guy didnt f**k a monkey and then bone 1000 gay men.

 

"actually AIDS is humans fault, if that french guy didnt f**k a monkey and then bone 1000 gay men"

You are wrong!

Chances are HIV got from monkeys to humans was through poaching. There is no evidence either way... And even if a gay guy did some monkeys and then the whole gay populace? Didn't the bible say that God offered Adam to have sex with any animal (and he declined, even though he was particularly fond of goats), and to give it 'unto' your fathers, sisters, and mothers?

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AIDS is not the fault of 'humans'... (when you say it that way you make it seem like its the fault of every single person!) Nor is the fault of a single person. HIV evolved to work with humans, lucky it.

OK, though the bible does say that god 'slew' a bunch of homosexuals, doesn't even mean homosexuality is wrong.

The bible also says bastards and people who haven't had their privy member (foreskin) cut off can't enter church.

(I know your single statement didn't really say anything about the bible, but it seemed like it was implying it.. and I like to berate the bible, i can't help it)

 

Actually it depends on the Christian and the Branch of Christianity they belong to.