Design:All faith aside.

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by clusteringflux, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. John99 Banned Banned

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    Are you are saying that bacteria changed into every single life form on the planet?
     
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  3. Roman Banned Banned

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    Define species, Johnny.
     
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  5. John99 Banned Banned

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    Even an elephant?
     
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  7. clusteringflux Version 1. OH! Valued Senior Member

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    He means genus and he's right.
     
  8. Roman Banned Banned

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    Define genus, please.
     
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    Spidergoat,

    In your estimation how long would it take for bacteria to evolve into an elephant?

    Can you explain the process?
     
  10. clusteringflux Version 1. OH! Valued Senior Member

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    The point is a dog is a dog and nothing points to it once being a cat or microbe.
     
  11. Roman Banned Banned

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    Your ignorance of biology is astounding.
    There is an overwhelmingly large amount of evidence of cats and dogs, and yes, even microbes, sharing common ancestors. In the case of cats and dogs, they share so many similarities that the only way to explain why a dog isn't more doglike and a cat more catlike, is evolution.

    But because you haven't taken any biology courses since highschool, it's understandable that you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.
     
  12. John99 Banned Banned

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    Roman, insults will not help you. Your just not presenting anything new or even a good argument.
     
  13. clusteringflux Version 1. OH! Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I agree.

    It would seem that I would be easily persuaded but when you only point to tiny adaptations of the same creature, common joe can't be expected to believe everything on earth came from bacteria..please help me!
     
  14. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I would estimate about 2-3 billion years. It was like an arms race. First the bacteria evolved movement, then they ate each other and defense against eating provided some advantage. Eventually, they discovered how to go on land to escape predators...
     
  15. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Not from bacteria exactly, but from single celled organisms that resembled bacteria. Bacteria are actually quite advanced, they are like little chemistry factories. They first discovered how to turn sunlight into food. They evolved to live in extreme environments...
     
  16. Roman Banned Banned

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    Is it an insult if it's true?

    Here are some questions you are unable to answer:
    Why do seemingly dissimilar organisms share so many similarities? Why has one structure, the vertebrate limb, been adapted to fly, swim, walk, burrow, and run, rather than having unrelated, more efficient designs for say, a, ostrich vs.a mole?

    Explain a whale's vestigial hip.
    Explain the double membrane of mitochondria, and triple membranes of some chloroplasts. Why do organisms with as diverse metabolisms as archaea (of which some reduce with iron and produce magnetite), protists (some that photosynthesize), and humans share so much rRNA? Why conservation of core molecular machinery across such vast phyla? Why do we repeatedly see maladapted structures based on old, ancestral traits, rather than completely different and better functioning ones?

    Why does each Hawaiian island have different types of flies on them, found only on those islands, and nowhere else in the world?
     
  17. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    Yes! That's why we need a new flu vaccine every year.

    No.... Because it never happened?

    You will never see a whale turn into a tiger. Evolution happens very, very gradually. With one mutation, it's not quite a different species; a number of mutations need to occur. As with humans: we mutated to have blue eyes, but the blue-eyed population is not a different species, because if a blue-eyed person mates with a brown-eyed person they can still produce fertile offspring. How many mutations? Well, how similar is a donkey to a horse? They both evolved from the same ancestor (which was neither a donkey nor a horse).

    (someone correct me if my memory of bio classes betrayed me.)
     
  18. Roman Banned Banned

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    You've got it right.
    Johnny and iceage don't understand the theory of evolution by natural selection, so it leads to a little confusion.
     
  19. John99 Banned Banned

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    Again, nothing in your post proves evolution of species. If you are going to design a car it will have four wheels, if it did not have wheel it would hover above the ground= that is the design process.

    wooden wheel
    rubber wheels
    no wheels.

    DESIGN. The whole process does not just say design it screams DESIGN.
     
  20. Roman Banned Banned

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    Can you answer a single one of those questions, using your design paradigm?
     
  21. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Evolution is qualitatively different than design. All innovations were gradual improvements. Sometimes an animal discovers a new use for an old tool. Originally, bats did not use sound to "see" in the dark, this has been confirmed in the discovery of fossil bats without complex ear parts.
     
  22. Roman Banned Banned

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    You ever read anything by the nullists? They take adaptationists to task for telling so many just-so stories. 'Course, no one outside of science cares about them because Dawkins is such a loudmouth, and no one likes math.
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Probably not Archaea. Otherwise, the evidence is that yes, most of the living things around here have "bacteria" in their evolutionary history.

    Keep in mind that "bacteria" covers a hell of a range of organisms, from some kinds of multicellular pond scum to flagellate dwellers in midocean trenches.

    I believe 3 and 6 wheeled cars are not that rare - from the very beginning of the "design" process. The ubiquity of the four wheeled variety is not a designed feature of the car system - it's what survived, as being fit.
    Their own stories haven't been that much better, on average.

    It's an important point of view, but it fails to explain a great deal, and its claim to be the default assumption at all times is not reasonable.
     

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