Desegregation: Harmful or Helpful?

I can not be sure, but see no basis for a difference to develop, at least in the average of many cases if they start equal (except for skin color) and are treaded equally. If you can suggest some reason why the skin color should make the black baby develop less well, I would like you to do so.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

To JB:

I am not a supporter of "forced bussing." I think the "magnet school" approach is best, but it must begin very early and some means must be found to get the students to these superior schools that cause those with the greatest innate potential to attend. Perhaps the first grader with two years in Montasouri kinderguarden must test higher than the child with no kindergarden. I will leave these details to professional educators, confident that they can make some reasonably accurate determinations with testing expenses less than 1% of what is now spent on indiscriminate bussing.

Get the intrinsically most gifted students very early into especially good magnet schools, even if they must be collected by some busses from distant homes in poor neighborhoods. The US can no longer afford to lose so many potentially good minds.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Skin color has nothing to do with differences in intelligence between blacks and whites.

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Oth...c-Blacks-General&Msc/100FactsAboutBlacks.html

FACT #17: Among human races numerous studies have been made of the comparative weight of White and Negro brains with results that fell within the range of about an 8-12 percent lower weight for the Negro brain. Such studies have been conducted by Bean, Pearl, Vint, Tilney, Gordon, Todd, and others. (23) (27)

FACT #18: In addition to the difference in brain weight, the Negro brain grows less after puberty than the white. Though the Negro brain and nervous system mature faster than the white brain, its development is arrested at an earlier age which limits further intellectual advancement. (22) (27)

FACT #19: The thickness of the supragranular layer (the outside layer) of the Negro brain is about 15 percent thinner, and its convolutions are fewer and more simple, on average, than that of the White brain. (9)

FACT #20: The frontal lobes of the Negro brain, responsible for abstract conceptional reasoning, are smaller relative to body weight, less fissured, and less complex than those of the White brain. (9) (27) (23) (22)

Intelligence

INTELLIGENCE

FACT #3: The I.Q.'s of American Negroes are from 15 to 20 points, on average, below those of American Whites. (26) (16) (18) (22)

FACT #4: These Black\White differences have been demonstrated repeatedly by every test ever conducted by every branch of the U.S. Military, every state, county, and local school board, the U.S. Dept. of Education, etc. The same ratio of difference has held true over a 40 year period. (18) (26) (24)

FACT #5: With an average I.Q. of 85, only 16% of Blacks score over 100, while half the White population does. The Negro overlap of White median I.Q.'s ranges from 10 to 25 percent-- equality would require 50 percent. (31) (27) (16)

FACT #6: Blacks are 6 times as likely to have I.Q.'s of 50 to 70 which put them in the slow learner (retarded) category, while Whites are ten times more likely to score 130 or over. (15) (16) (18) (23)

FACT # 7: The U.S. government's PACE examination, given to 100,000 university graduates who are prospective professional or administrative civil-service employees each year, is passed with a score of 70 or above by 58% of the whites who take it but by only 12% of the Negroes. Among top scorers the difference between Negro and White performance is even more striking: 16% of the white applicants make scores of 90 or above, while only one-fifth of one percent of a Negro applicants score as high as 90--a White/Black success ration of 80/1. (27)

FACT #8: Differences between Negro and White children increase with chronological age, the gap in performance being largest at the high school and college levels. (31) (26)

FACT #9: White/Negro I.Q. differences are constantly excused as results of environmental variations. but at least five studies that have attempted to equate socio-economic backgrounds of the two races indicate no significant change in relative results. As environment improves, the Negro does better but so does the White. The gap is not decreased. (26) In fact, extensive research by DR. G.J. McGurk, associate Professor of Psychology at Villanove University, reveals that the gap in intelligence between Blacks and Whites INCREASES where socio-economic levels of both races are raised to the middle classes. (18)

FACT #10: In 1915, Dr. G.W. Ferfuson took 1000 school children in Virginia, divided them into 5 racial categories, and tested them for mental aptitude. On average. full-blooded Negroes scored 69.2% as high as Whites. Three-quarter Negroes scored 73.0% as high as Whites. One-half Negroes scored 81.2% as high as Whites. One-quarter Negroes scored 91.8% as high as Whites. All of these Blacks lived as and considered themselves "Negroes." Their environments and "advantages" or disadvantages were exactly the same. (14) Also see (26) pg 452.

FACT #11: Results of the Army Beta test given by the U.S. Army to over 386,000 illiterate soldiers in WWI showed Negro draftees to be "inferior to the Whites on all types of tests used in the Army." Additionally, tests were conducted upon pure Negroes, Mulattoes, and Quadroons. It was found that "the lighter groups made better scores." (14)

FACT #12: Studies conducted with identical twins raised apart in radically different environments provide conclusive evidence that over-all influence of heredity exceeds that of environment in a ratio of about 3 to 1. (41)

FACT #13: Even when Blacks and Whites have the same backgrounds, in terms of family income and childhood advantages, Blacks still have average I.Q. scores 12 to 15 points lower than comparable Whites. This includes cases where Black children have been adopted by White parents. Their I.Q.s may be improved by environment, but they are still closer to their biological parents than their adoptive parents. (3) (15) (26)

FACT #14: Equalitarian ideologists often discount I.Q. test results with the excuse that they are culturally biased. Nonetheless, NO ONE, not the NAACP nor the United Negro College Fund, nor NEA had been able to develop an intelligence test which shows Blacks and Whites scoring equally. (15) (42) (3)

FACT # 15: American Indians, who often live in conditions far worse than American Blacks during their entire lives, still consistently outscore them on I.Q. tests. (3) (27)

FACT #16: The offspring of interracial marriages tend to have lower I.Q.s than the white parent. (11) (26)

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

As almost all, if not all, of your facts concern IQ differences after at least a dozen years, I am not surprized by these results. Nor am I surprised at the results that JB cited about Americas testing below most of the rest of the world, especially in math and sciences. All this supports my point. The US educational system is very inefficient as on average all babys have essentially the same potential at birth (after some correction needed for societies where the prenatal care is good vs. non existent, etc. - E.g. low birth weight making for lower average IQs and delivery by C-section for noticeably higher ones, (presumably as some brain damage does occur during the oxygen null of labor)

I will not go thru you facts in detail, but number 8 was interesting. Do you know if when these two diverging line are extrapolated back to zero age they meet - providing still more evidence that the is no significant racial difference at birth between the races?

Fact 14 is false. I was part of the civil right movement (my view that providing equal opportunity to all is in US self interest is years old) and during that time I took the "chitlins test" which is designed to very strongly favor urban blacks. I measured as a high grade idiot, as I recall. The test was modeled on many different ones in use by selectively re-wording real questions from tests that were in use. The only guestion I can still remember is the one the test is named for. The original questionwas something like: "What food group do apricots belong to?" with multiple choice answers like, "meat" "fruit" "vegetable" "dairy" "starch." The modified question was: "What food group do chittlins belong to?" with the same multiple choice answers to select from.

Few poor black children in the urban ghetto have ever seen an apricot. Few white kids in the suburbs eat chitlins. (I may not have it spelled right, but in case you are wondering, "Chitlins" are finely chopped pieces of pig gut, lightly breaded and fried, so "meat group" is the correct answer.)

Admittedly, few tests are as biased as the "chitlins test" as it is rare I cannot score better than "high grade idiot" but almost all tests have some cultural bias. The typical Chinese student will not do well on most translated US tests and conversely in most areas, math being the only universal unbiased one. For example: a Chinese history question: What was the crime of Chairman Mao's wife and name another member of the gang of seven? or a US history one: Who shot Abraham Lincoln and where did it happen?

Summary: None of your facts are relevant to my claim that at birth there is no racial difference in the innate potential on the average. Are you so lacking in understanding to think they are? Do you not realize that once again you have supported my claim which is in essence that black and whites at birth on average are gifted with either equal or very insignificantly different IQ potential, but as they mature the blacks fall farther and farther behind. The brightest ones often ceasing even going to school, as it is dangerous and useless for them.

LATER by edit: Because I was courious, I went to your reference to see if the data was there to make the extrapolation back to zero age I mentioned above. You are quoting one of the most ignorant biased single soruces I have ever seen. At many places he is suggesting that negros are only slightly evolved apes. etc. You should be ashamed. Not one of his "101 facts" comes from a scientific study as far as I could tell from a quick skim of his references. - All are just biased views of people who agree with him that the negro is subhuman, sort of an advanced ape. I encourage other to have a quick look at this nonsense of a reference.

 

Probably some do if they are in the wrong enviornment where being smart is frowned upon.

The issue is whether the black average can be raised to the white average given the proper environment to which I say no. That some blacks are smarter than some whites or even the average white is disputed by no one.

 

to Count sudoku:

From post 204:
“if a baby has not suffered development problem (mother on drugs, alcohol, mal-nourished etc)”
From post 208,
also repeated in post 212:
“when the healthy (not already brain damaged) black baby is adopted”
From post 214:
“If the adopting parents get a healthy baby”
From post 224:
“same potential at birth (after some correction needed for societies where the prenatal care is good vs. non existent, etc. - E.g. low birth weight making …”

In post 225, After all the above, you ask:

“Do babies with Down's syndrome have the same chance as being doctors as normal babies?”

Clearly either:

(1) Your reading/ comprehension problems continue.
Or
(2) Your biases are so strong that you are incapable of thought.
Or
(3) You are just an overall idiot.

PS - I made my best guess bold.

 

My point is that not every baby has the same potential intelligence and Down's syndrome is an extreme example of that. Not every baby has the same intelligence potential even if they are totally healthy and of the same race. Furthermore, on average, black babies have lower intelligence potentials than white babies. All the stats I posted give evidence of that.

My internet connection is about to be cut, so I'll be signing off for awhile (probably to the relief of some members here)

 

Your reading or low mentality problem still is very sever, I see. All my posts have clearly (even five times making it bold as you have such poor comprehension or reading problem) said: "On the Average" Yet you still idiotically speak of individuals, not averages, when replying to me.

Finally, you do mention the average black-baby case, claim to have given "evidence" about it, but:

(1) There, is absolutely nothing in your reference related to babies of any race. - Only information about the fact that adult blacks do measure with lower average IQ, disproportionally populate the jails etc. - totally irrelevant material for a discussion of the differences between racial groups, if any, in the innate IQ potential AT BIRTH, and much of it not in dispute.

Further more:
(2) All of it comes exclusively from one jerk who suggests, in several dozen of his 101 "facts," that Negroes are basically "high grade apes," and references others who hold similar OPINIONS as his "evidence" of this "fact." (I did not see your name in his reference list, but you surely qualify. - Contact him and he will cite you as one of his “authorities” in the next edition of his "101 facts.")

Find one per-reviewed journal article that supports your biased views, which BTW are so false that they would be rejected even by journal CRACKPOT. (Communications Reveling All Common Karma Propositions Or Theories.)

 

Pal, it's you that can't fucking read. I never said that every white person is smarter than every black person. Some blacks are smarter than some whites. Some blacks are smarter than most whites. I have always talked about group averages and until now never even mentioned the individual.

You seem to change the focus of the discussion with every post so I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

My "biased" views are what actually fits with what is happening in reality. The low IQ of blacks is a perfect explanation of why Africa is a dump, and blacks don't do as well (as a group) in advanced societies and why every other group does better (because they have higher average IQ).

Sheesh, what exactly is it that you want proven? Christ, even wikipedia which is censored by liberals will tell you that blacks have lower IQ. If you think giving blacks a "good environment" will bring them up to average, you are living in a dreamworld. The adoption studies are proof of that.

 

To Count Sudoku:

All my post are about the AVERAGE potential IQ at birth not being significantly different among the races. (Perhaps Orientals are slightly superior to the other races, etc. - but no group is significantly so when compared to the spread with in the group.)

I have many times even made the key words bold, to help you with your reading/ comprehension problems, but even that does not get you to stop posting fact that adult individual backs test out with lower IQ - a fact I accept as true. I especially accept your fact that the gap between black and white IQs steadily increases as they age. - This convergence at younger ages tends to confirm that at birth there was no significant difference.

Bold CAPs of ON THE AVERAGE...POTENTIAL IQ at BIRTH have repeatedly failed to make you comprehend the subject.

You still say:
"...I don't know what the fuck you are talking about...."

There is no way to be more clear what I am talking about. As even with key words in caps and bold you still can not comprehend that I am ONLY saying that the underdevelopment of good brains that happen to be in black bodies is an economic loss to the US, I will cease trying to get you to respond to the point I am making.

I have always agreed there is a difference in the average IQ of black and white adults. -You need not keep repeating this, cite one references stating this, etc.

It would have been nice if you could have been responsive to my point, but clearly that is beyond your mental capacity. Perhaps if your re-read my posts several times you can comprehend my point. Then you will know what the fuck I have been talking about.

 

Well what do you mean by "average potential IQ"? Are you suggesting that the races could potentially all have the same average IQ under certain conditions?

 

I agree with voluntary segregation, people of like mind, that makes the most sense. People of like appearance however, to be honest, I'd be bored if everyone looked exactly like me, in fact I'd be bored if everyone had the exact mind, so I like enough diversity for my location to be interesting, but not so much diversity that I feel alienated as I often do in the big city.

I think community is important, and this is why I'd support voluntary segregation, if it's to the benefit of the community, the community comes first. Same goes for the country, if voluntary segregation is good for the country, I support it.

I do not support forced segregation, in fact, I think the way society is now, it's almost forced segregation, it's class based now, but there are still people, who would not want to live next to a rich minority of the same class, I think thats forced segregation, if it's spreadout accross the country, if it's just in one state, if people who think like this just pick a state, and populate it, then I don't care, but because it's spread out it's as if no matter where you go, you'll always be around people you can't get along with.

 

The white criminals are above the law in some cases. Do you think the police for example would mess with the mafia? Hell no. However small petty street gangs selling drugs, these criminals are easy to mess with because they arent very smart most of the time, thats why they get caught, and because they arent well organized.

A well organized criminal network will likely have their own police, they'll simply have their gang members and thugs go to the police academy and become cops, then they'll arrest only their rivals. Thats how the smart criminals operate, the not so smart criminals just stand out on the corner selling drugs to random people, and get caught up in a sting. What I'm saying is that a lot of blacks and hispanics arent good at selling drugs, and also I'm saying that the police go after the small criminals, only the FBI goes after the kingpins, and even the FBI has people they can't touch or can't deal with.

Al Capone was not a black criminal, but I guess you forget that it was white people who sold all the liqour during the prohibition days, and it's still mostly white people now selling drugs like meth, and running cracklabs, and do all of the distribution, just because a lot of black and hispanics are in prison for stealing cars and selling drugs, it does not mean that white people don't sell guns, create and run druglabs, and farm marijuana. So white hands create the drugs, then distribute it to black hands, who then go ahead and sell the drugs to police hands, and the police arrest all the black hands because it's easier to trace the drugs directly back to the hands they came from and the closest degree of seperation is the black hand. The white hand might be 2-3 degrees of seperation.

I don't think anyone believes that only blacks are involved in the drug trade, or any criminal operation. I also don't think many people believe that black or hispanics are selling guns, or running crack or meth labs, you know they arent, and the meth and crack has to come from somewhere, and theres no crack or methlabs in the ghetto.

 

Voluntary segregation does not exist because there are always people like me who insist on mixing.

 

It doesn't exist (for whites) because the law forbids it. Otherwise there would be white communities (not every white community) where blacks were not welcome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town

 

Nonsense. Not all people are racists like you.

 

What did I say? I said some white communities would do this and some wouldn't.

 

Who cares about the drug trade? Drugs should be legal, as far as I'm concerned. I'm talking about violent crime, homicide. Are white murderers also smarter than black ones and more able to get away with it? After all, something must account for the eightfold greater homicide rate among blacks.

 

And that would be a good thing. why would any person of color want to live around racist white people? voluntary segregation benefits all.

 

Complete bullshit. I estimate 80 percent of the criminals in jail are there on drug related charges, not violent crime. The percentage of blacks and hispanics commiting rapes and murders is actually quite small, I'm talking under 1% of the total population, this means 1% of the population, is commiting the murders.

In street gangs, most gang members never murdered or killed before, it's usually that one guy, the leader guy, who is ruthless and who does all the killing. I don't know where you got the 8 fold homicide rate and I don't think any of those fake statistics matter, because if a smart white, or a smart person in general commits a homicide, how exactly would anyone know? It could be made to look like a heart attack, or like cancer, or like a drug overdose, and be ruled as death by natural causes. What you are speaking of is gun violence, I can agree with you here that guns are used perhaps more by blacks and hispanics to commit violent crime, thats about all I agree with, I think when the mafia decides to kill you, you just vanish, no body, nothing. I think when even the organized black or hispanic gangs kill you, it's simply that you vanish, or you die in your sleep for unknown reasons. Smart criminals don't kill people in the fashion you meantion, with knives and guns, as there are hitmen and professionals who know what they are doing.

That's the difference. Haven't you heard of Murder Inc? They weren't black. Try to make a better case, because no one will be convinced that blacks or hispanics are more violent, it's not in the history of this country. It's likely that there are just as many violent blacks as there are violent whites, but being violent is not the same as being skilled at it. Being a criminal is not the same as being a skilled criminal. A skilled criminal or group of criminals can become untouchable, no one can stop them, they can end up above the law itself, until even the police fear them or work for them, and once that happens, it's not going to be in any police records, I mean what if police are used for the hits? Did you ever consider that?

Anyway, I don't know why you of all people are so racist, you were defending retarded people several posts ago, wanting to force them into the classroom with the "better" kids, yet you at the same time say that blacks commit all the crimes? Maybe retards are the ones who keep commiting the same crime over and over, getting caught over and over, and maybe the smart ones don't get caught.