Denial of Evolution VII (2015)

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by davewhite04, Jan 5, 2015.

  1. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    That was the fastest switch of opinion I've ever seen on SF. Hilarious.
     
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  3. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I think I see your problem here:

    Abiogenesis

    noun
    1. the now discredited theory that living organisms can arise spontaneously from inanimate matter; spontaneous generation.
    2. the theory that the earliest life forms on earth developed from nonliving matter.​

    So: 2. yes, 1. good God, no. No, no one's pushing 1 these days. Because it's a touch crazy.
     
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  5. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    This link is better then a dictionary Geoff.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Ask and ye shall receive!

    ===========================
    Iron–sulfur world theory

    The iron–sulfur world theory is a set of proposals for the origin of life and the early evolution of life advanced in a series of articles between 1988 and 1992 by Günter Wächtershäuser, a Munich patent lawyer with a degree in chemistry, who had been encouraged and supported by philosopher Karl R. Popper to publish his ideas. The theory proposes that early life may have formed on the surface of iron sulfide minerals, hence the name. It was developed by retrodiction from extant biochemistry in conjunction with chemical experiments.
    =============================
     
  8. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I was hoping your confusion was hung up on the old Aristotelian usage. Apparently not.

    It's a scientific theory, and a pretty good one. This disheartens you? I thought faith was founded in faith. "Put not your God to the test", it is written (Luke 4:12).
     
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  9. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly. Watch you don't get 10 points for preaching.
     
  10. Bells Staff Member

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    Mod Note

    This is really not acceptable.

    I have issued you with a warning for it, and if you keep it up, the points will simply accumulate until we simply shut the door behind you on your way out.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    I really don't think you are in any position to be referring to anyone as "fools" at present.

    And abiogenesis is a scientific theory.

    He's not preaching.
     
  12. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    What I'm saying is that your faith is your faith irrespective of evidence, no? That's why it's called faith. Remember Job? There you go.
     
  13. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    I do remember Job, a genuine inspiration to all.
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    This brings the possibility of an actual scientific hypothesis from a creationist into view.

    We have the "building blocks" given, but no living being. We have the entire range of living organisms, all of which are complex consequences of accepted evolution, undesigned. We should be able to narrow down between them, in time and space, an hypothesized act of creation: what was created, when it was created, and what it was created from.

    Failing that, a specific and testable hypothesis as to what prevented ordinary evolutionary processes from producing living organisms from these "building blocks", at that time, would be a decent fallback option for the creation/design proposer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  15. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure James R is thick skinned enough to not take my comment to heart. You just need to remember it wasn't directed to you as I wouldn't waste my time.

    EDIT: Apology to James R for being a man and taking my quip on the chin.
     
  16. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Whatever began the journey towards life was very simple. It had to be.
    It's a good problem.
    Has anyone done any work investigating some kind of natural chromatography?
    That would cause local concentrations of chemicals.
     
  17. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    So would you not ignore what you perceive as insults to your faith - mentioning again, that this is not intended to be so, and that the expression of same would be a kind of violation of scientific perspective - and simply carry on? The world drags on a good man. Don't let it. Words are only air.
     
  18. matthew809 Registered Senior Member

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    But I used to be a believer in the theory of evolution. I used to ponder the exact same descriptions that you just wrote about the universe... and I still do. Why do evolutionists constantly feel the need to explain the rationale behind their beliefs, as if it's something so very complex? You haven't enlightened me... I figured this stuff out a long time ago. Please give me just a little credit. I have actually advanced from what I would consider a simple-minded paradigm. Just because I have come to a different conclusion than you, that does not make me small-minded.



    Your billions/billions/billions analogy is fine for showing how one extremely unlikely event, with enough time and space, is actually inevitable. And you could even go ahead and apply this same reasoning to any unlikely event... and another event, and so on. But by definition, these events are disconnected from each other. The moment you try to connect them together, into a single chain of dependent events, within a finite time-frame and space, you have an exponentially less probable scenario with each event that you haphazardly add. And unfortunately for the theory of evolution(and apparently unknowing to evolutionists), the number of events in this chain are enormously beyond reason. In other words, an inevitable scenario becomes an impossible one.... and I realize this may be hard for an evolutionist to understand.
     
  19. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think I've taking any insult that was directed to me seriously, have i?

    Mark 7:15
    15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
     
  20. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    So how do you explain the difference between a child and their parents?

    Edit: Interesting Link
     
  21. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe Abiogenesis began with the Big Bang.
    Is there an urge to exist, to gather information, and become conscious?
    Otherwise why would things become more complex and evolve?
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    The nature of science is to explain the rationale behind scientific theories, to better understand how the universe works. Often, those theories are indeed very complex.

    And note that Rav did not explain the rationale until you asked him about it.

    No, they are not. And every time someone claims that "X is impossible!" (X being the formation of amino acids without life, or simple self-replicating molecules, or the formation of a lipid membrane) a scientist comes along and demonstrates how that is possible. When you have a string of, say, a dozen possible things that have to happen in a row - and they are possible enough that they can be readily re-created - the odds of that happening in nature can be calculated, and is far from impossible.
     
  23. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Began where exactly?

    Earth is about 3.5 billion years old and the universe is about 14 billion years old.
     

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