Denial of evolution II

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Hercules Rockefeller, Mar 9, 2009.

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  1. tuberculatious Banned Banned

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    Doesn't matter. People patent genes all the time and they definitely aren't the first to use them.
     
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  3. sniffy Banned Banned

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    Just in case I've texted the word to Craig Venter.....
     
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  5. tuberculatious Banned Banned

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    Someone important like him has probably people working for him that search the internet just for things like this.
     
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  7. sniffy Banned Banned

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    Mwahahahahahahahahah......

    It's tough but somebody has to do it.
     
  8. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    A proper sceintist would have patented the word before anyone thought of it.
    Craig Venter?
    Pfft.
     
  9. sniffy Banned Banned

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  10. tuberculatious Banned Banned

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    I prefer to call evolution devolution since we are going downhill.
     
  11. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Traitor! I knew I was right to stab you in the back earlier.

    Oh, and shut up, Oli.
     
  12. Roman Banned Banned

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    Sorry I've taken so long to get back to this (you're one of my favorite posters on the internet).

    Sponges have the ability to reconstitute themselves after being pushed through, say, cheese cloth. If you take two sponges, of the same species, and label one sponge (typically by feeding them radioactive food), then push both through cheese cloth, they will reconstitute themselves as separate sponges. You will end up with one radioactive sponge and one non-radioactive sponge.

    I think the mirror test to detect "self-awareness" is horribly biased towards simian, bifocal criteria.
     
  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I would agree, but that is sort of what I meant by concept of self. What you're describing with sponges I will agree is a recognition of self - like immune system recognition. I suspect that goes pretty far down in evolution time. If you can asexually reproduce or clone a sponge A to get two genetically identical sponges, B & C and then do your radioactive tagging, I bet the post cheese cloth B' & C' are both radioactive.

    I.e. having a functional immune system that recognize "not me" cells or proteins is not what I meant by having a concept self.
     
  14. Hipparchia Registered Senior Member

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    Hi guys. you both seem pretty knowledgeable about these things, but on the topic of spnges you are saying the exact opposite. Do either of you have any research that backs up their belief?
     
  15. Hipparchia Registered Senior Member

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    I'll take the long silence as a 'No', shall I? It's just it seemed either outcome would be interesting and you both seemed convinced you were right. I'd kind of like to know.

    Thanks.
     
  16. tuberculatious Banned Banned

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  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Well yeah. Dogs have poor vision. Even the so-called "keen eyed" breeds like poodles and greyhounds would be around 20/100 on the human scale. There's no way they can tell each other apart by sight.

    Nonetheless dogs make a good example because they certainly identify other dogs as unique individuals, not generic pack-mates. Why would they not think of themselves the same way?

    Dolphins, at least some species, identify themselves by a combination of sounds in their songs that we would call a "name."
     
  18. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I know you like birds and bet you already know about penguin's amazing identification abilities. There will tens of thousands of them sitting on their egg in an ice field, very close together, waiting sometimes weeks for their mate to return from a fishing trip and regurgitate food to the egg sitter and the chick if it has hatched. Somehow each returning bird finds her (or his) mate just from slight difference in the chirp and response patterns, I think. They all look just alike to me anyway.

    BTW I am still continuing my mirror test with my Cockatoo, several times each day. He sits on my shoulder in front of the bathroom mirror when washing my hands after necessary trips there. No longer, if placed on my finger and brought close to the mirror, will he be hostile towards the image. Now he often does a lot of head bobing etc. (to see if the mirror bird can follow?) Yesterday, I just leanded forward to bring him close to the mirror while still on my shoulder. He immediately moved behind my head, and then peeked out. (To see if that "mirror bird" was still there?)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2009
  19. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Mirrors don't occur very commonly in the environment of most animals, so they haven't developed the ability to recognize themselves. Psittacines--budgies especially--are famous for regarding "the bird in the mirror" as a playmate.
     
  20. EmmZ It's an animal thing Registered Senior Member

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    Can someone tell me if they've found this common ancestor we're supposed to have descended from? I know there's lots of inferential evidence but do we have bones yet?
     
  21. stereologist Escapee from Dr Moreau Registered Senior Member

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    Common ancestor with what? Between what species?
     
  22. EmmZ It's an animal thing Registered Senior Member

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    Can someone tell me if they've found this common ancestor we're supposed to have descended from? I know there's lots of inferential evidence but do we have bones yet?

     
  23. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Your question still does not make any sense.

    A common ancestor is the common ancestor between two or more species. To ask what is the sound of one hand clapping is great philosophy, but poor science.

    Take an analogy of personal relations. The common ancestors of my sister and I are my mother and father. The common ancestor of my cousin and I are my grandfather and grandmother on my father's side. The common ancestor of myself and this guy with the same name who runs a local business is a couple in Kintyre who left there in the early 18th century.

    So, I have to ask again, which common ancestor? Between us an chimpanzee's, between us and other primates, between us and other mammals, between us and other vertebrates, between us and other eukaryotes, betwee us and all other lifeforms. Which is it you are asking about?
     
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