Deliberately inducing a near death experience....

[Dennis Tate]

... perhaps to decrease a patients suicidal tendencies.... would that be ethical?

In my opinion.... yes..... from what I have read the drug ketamine could well be used by some psychiatrists to give a suicidal patient a near death experience sort of trip and yes..........

based on the book Transformed By the Light by Dr. Melvin Morse that could actually work in a percentage of patients to greatly reduce their tendency to want to end their lives?

 

[Dennis Tate]

If one ketamine trip could prevent a patient from attempting suicide again and again.....
then there is no way that I could try to condemn the psychiatrist who would recommend that form of treatment????

This is above my Security Clearance Level as far as ethics are concerned.

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1985-00010-001

Ketamine and the near-death experience.
ExportEXPORTRogo, D. Scott
Citation
Rogo, D. S. (1984). Ketamine and the near-death experience. Anabiosis: The Journal of Near-Death Studies, 4(1), 87–96.
Abstract
Contends that the phenomenology that typically accompanies the near-death experience (NDE) is sometimes a by-product of ketamine, an anesthetic used in both medical and recreational settings. It is suggested that these close parallels can be explained by a variety of conceptual models including the following: The NDE is a similar form of chemically induced hallucination. Ketamine induces objective out-of-body experiences. Ketamine-linked NDEs are artifacts produced by expectancy and the hospital setting. The NDE is an archetypal experience catalyzed under a variety of different situations. It is contended that each of these theories has its advantages and disadvantages; how one wishes to interpret the ketamine–NDE relationship is a matter of choice or individual bias rather than logic and analysis. The fact that ketamine-induced hallucinations resemble NDEs in so many details casts doubt on any simplistic metaphysical model of NDE. (22 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2018 APA, all rights reserved)

 

[Dennis Tate]

The Brain Stimulation alternative option does not seem very practical does it????

https://near-death.com/psychology


https://near-death.com/trigger-of-brain-stimulation/

The Trigger of Brain Stimulation: Dr. Bruce Greyson’s NDE Research
BY KEVIN WILLIAMSPOSTED ON SEPTEMBER 23, 2019

 

[Beer w/Straw]

If I don't have a Near Death Experience, am I less than human?

 

[Write4U]

If I don't have a Near Death Experience, am I less than human?

No, your just more alive than near death, which is a little bit alive. That's when things start to go haywire in your brain from lack of oxygen. As we know this process takes about 9+ minutes and it is far from pleasant, as rumor would have you believe.
When a full grown man begs for his mama, he is not experiencing enlightenment, but complete regression. That is not rumor, we all witnessed it, live on TV.

A little factoid on Ketamine. That stuff is the infamous date rape drug.

Ketamine is a dissociative anesthetic used in human anesthesia and veterinary medicine. Dissociative drugs are hallucinogens that cause a person to feel detached from reality. Much of the ketamine sold on the street has been diverted from veterinarians’ offices. Ketamine’s chemical structure and mechanism of action are similar to those of PCP.[1]

Also known as special K, super K and vitamin k, among other slang terms, ketamine is manufactured as an injectable liquid. In illicit use ketamine is swallowed or evaporated to form a snortable powder.

It is odorless and tasteless, so it can be added to beverages without being detected, and it induces amnesia. Because it has been used to commit sexual assaults due to its ability to sedate and incapacitate unsuspecting victims, ketamine is also considered to be a “date rape” drug.[1]

https://drugfree.org/drugs/ketamine/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7vv1uLCo8AIVMQV9Ch3mMQKQEAAYASAAEgL0CfD_BwE

There is no drug more benign and therapeutic than MJ, and some Andreas Vollenweider.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

So, I'm less human unless I'm raped?

 

[Dennis Tate]

If I don't have a Near Death Experience, am I less than human?

No.........
you could decide to repress memories of a near death experience for some reason that is your choice.

About eighty or so percent of people who flatline repress whatever it was that they may have viewed but a psychiatrist who can do hypnotic regression can often help them to recover those memories if they want them?

 

[Dennis Tate]

No, your just more alive than near death, which is a little bit alive. That's when things start to go haywire in your brain from lack of oxygen. As we know this process takes about 9+ minutes and it is far from pleasant, as rumor would have you believe.
When a full grown man begs for his mama, he is not experiencing enlightenment, but complete regression. That is not rumor, we all witnessed it, live on TV.

A little factoid on Ketamine. That stuff is the infamous date rape drug.

https://drugfree.org/drugs/ketamine/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7vv1uLCo8AIVMQV9Ch3mMQKQEAAYASAAEgL0CfD_BwE

There is no drug more benign and therapeutic than MJ, and some Andreas Vollenweider.

Thank you for that detail.....
I did not know that ketamine was a date rape drug!!!!!!!

 

[Dennis Tate]

So, I'm less human unless I'm raped?

Helen Wambach Ph. D. found that about ninety percent of her volunteers could be hypnotized........
and could be regressed in time into what they perceived as past lives.........

One part of her study was to take them to the time of their deaths in a past life and find out what caused their deaths.....
and in her second book... she went into a lot of detail on
what they reported as they died in a past life.........

... the correlation between her second book with NDE accounts astonished me.

She took her subjects back four millennia and her volunteers saw themselves all over the spectrum and yes...... most of her volunteers would likely have somehow seen themselves as a victim of rape in one or more of those past lives that she regressed them into.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

So, you say rape as a process of evolution?

 

[Bells]

... perhaps to decrease a patients suicidal tendencies.... would that be ethical?

It's still being tested. It is not approved for that use.

In my opinion.... yes..... from what I have read the drug ketamine could well be used by some psychiatrists to give a suicidal patient a near death experience sort of trip and yes..........

That's nice. But it is still being tested and studied as a possible alternative to treating depression.

based on the book Transformed By the Light by Dr. Melvin Morse that could actually work in a percentage of patients to greatly reduce their tendency to want to end their lives?

Why does every single bloody thing have to involve near death experience for you?

Ketamine can induce sensation of a near death experience of sorts, but that in and of itself has nothing with treating suicidal tendencies.

For once, just once, try to leave the woo books out of it.

If one ketamine trip could prevent a patient from attempting suicide again and again.....

There is nothing to suggest that it would take just one dose or that it could do anything of the sort.

What they are suggesting is that Ketamine could be used as an intermediary, until the patient's anti-depressants kick in.. What they are studying is the dosage required to not make the person high and looking at how it could be delivered (such as with a nasal spray). Because anti-depressants can take several weeks before they become effective.

then there is no way that I could try to condemn the psychiatrist who would recommend that form of treatment????

What?

What treatment options people decide to use is actually not really any of your business and it's not your place to condemn or not condemn.

This is above my Security Clearance Level as far as ethics are concerned.

Security clearance?

Huh?

The Brain Stimulation alternative option does not seem very practical does it????

https://near-death.com/psychology


https://near-death.com/trigger-of-brain-stimulation/

The Trigger of Brain Stimulation: Dr. Bruce Greyson’s NDE Research
BY KEVIN WILLIAMSPOSTED ON SEPTEMBER 23, 2019

What does this have to do with this thread?

You have been warned about this rubbish multiple times now.

High doses of Ketamine can trigger that sensation, but that has absolutely nothing with with what your OP discussed in regards to using it as treatment for depression or suicidal tendencies.

It's as though you are trying to get around the numerous warnings you have received in regards to your stupid obsession with near death experiences to try to sneak it into other sub-forums.

 

[Bells]

Mod Note

Thread closed.

Reason: Despite numerous warnings in regards to not posting woo in other sub-forums, Dennis has decided to attempt to bypass those warnings by starting a thread about inducing near death experiences, with a misleading OP about using ketamine to treat depression.. Not to mention inferring using ketamine to get high to treat suicidal thoughts.. Which can be dangerous.