didnt we agree that your average photon torp is 60megatons? and we have seen the ent D take multiple photon and disrupter hits and still have shields.how much borg attacks has it survived? hell ,in insurection the ent E got hit by half a dozen ptorps from 3 ships AND a subspace weapon[something that sw will find more then a challenge],and AFTER they ejected the warp core they still had 60% shields,then they set a collision course and did a very close[50meter ]flyby and burned some huge holes in the other ship with the phaser,getting hit by phtotns and disrupters the whole time. the ent E was batting 1000! every shot hit its target,in fact out of all the movies the entE is batting well over 95%. thats leaps and bounds above anything in sw. the fact is ,trek is just far superior in combat,they have stronger weapons,better tactics,superior abilities.
Again no math, no equations and no adherance to the visuals of the show. Everything they claim is bogus from moment one. In fact it is a disgrace to Trekkies everywhere. they obviously have "dazzling people with bullshit" and "doing the work" That Asteroid had no air form what we could see and it wasn't mention so it is not there. So any amount melted would have vaporized damned fast, almost instantly. It would have left a whole. No whole. I agree making most material incandescant would be hard, but considering the earlier blasts you see this could be a natural property of this rock absorbing nadions and glowing. There is no clear proof in the weapon strength becuase they contradict themselves four or five times in the same episode if not others. It takes a single photon toredo to blow apart a rock 200 meter wide, but five to blow apart an ancient ship that has been bombarded with radiation for millenia. Torpedoes are seen to be incredibly effective against shielded ships and not so much against ships with no warp drive. Could the standard photon be a shield disruption device and ones used on solid object loaded with varying amounts of antimatter?
The only one here not showing any math or adherence to the visuals is you. You're basing your entire analysis on one line of dialogue. I've been willing (and able) to back up everything I've linked to using my own math, showing every step in ways you can understand. We say the moon doesn't really have "air," but it does have an atmosphere. A very thin one. As you vaporize material, you add vapor to the area. As you add vapor, things vaporize less quickly. And rock has a pretty low equilibrium vapor pressure at a thousand degrees or so. Actually, you might be able to sell that on the huge flash that - as starfleetjedi.net mentions - is seen on the first blast. The second blast has no "flash." It heats up and starts glowing. Incidentally, Spock is attempting to fracture the asteroid. Want to go into the gravitational energy he has to overcome to split it into two pieces? Using the torpedos of a decade earlier, and (incidentally) a ship substantially more than 200 meters wide. That would be an interesting measure... but wouldn't that imply that the antimatter-loaded photorps aren't very effective against shielded ships? Brings us right back to square one with huge amounts of energy raining off shields with no effect.
Variable Fucking Yield!!!!!!!!!!!!! Photons Have A Variable Yield!!!!!!!!! Anytime Two Photon Torps Do 2 Diffrent Things Its Because They Have A Variable Yield!!!!!!! Its Exactly Like Hand Phasers,they Have A Varible Setting!!! Each Situation Is Diffrent,so They Devoloped Weapons That Can Do More Then Shoot The Exact Same Thing Every Time!!!! Its Fucking Simple,sometimes You Need A Hammer,sometimes A Wrench!!!!!
I'm not the one claiming they have an unbelievable firepower when it is shown again and again they just dont. Why did they need to blow up a Constitution class starship to get the 100 megaton blast that destroyed the planet killer? Why do their shield fail after less than a dozen hits? Why do they takle damage even thought their shields are still up? You can't answer any of these becuase you ignore them. Depending on the rock and what scale. If it was basalt, I'd say yes, granite not so bad and don't get me started on some of the other ones. Yes and burned out the enitre power supply of the warp engines performing said act if I remember the episode correctly. No inspiring especially when they fail, miserably. Actually this was the Enterprise-D using 5 torpedoes on a ship long dead. It spent centuries if not millenia getting bombarded with gama radiation which has the tendency to make metal brittle. True the ship in question was over 200 meter, probably closer to 400meter, still a pathetic display. Two explanations First and less likely: Low Joule output ber square meter Actually I like to think of it much like ground pressure. Spread the huge amount of energy over a wide area of shielding and it isn't going to penetrate. In fact the shield isn't going to strain as much as it should. So it's delivery inefficency. If Torpedoes were shaped charge (and we know they aren't by visual) you'd see a lot more penetration Second and more likely: As I have detailed in another thread Shields may not act like we think they do. Instead they are detection and point defnse system using graviton particles carefull callibrated to destroy or eliminate in coming threats. Destroying a torpedo is hard, but done right and the ship takes no damage. Blocking an energy blast is hard, but done right and you get a 1 joule for 1 joule efficency or maybe even better. I picture the borg expending 1 joule per 2 incoming joules when they adapt.
Last time I will respond to you, but here goes. Imagine, if you will, you are the Captain on a Galaxy Class star ship and you are responsible for the life and livelihood of two thousand people, not to mention a mult trillion credit ship. Now you are stuck in a asteroid belt unable to move and the ship being assualted by enough gama radiation to get through the shields in a matter of less than two days, then penetrate your super dense hull and kill everyone inside in under thirty minutes. You think this effect is somehow hidden in this derelict ship in front of you. Now wouldn't you tell them to use the biggest torpedoes they had, maybe even give them an hour or so to recongure them with truly massive warheads? Or perhaps use Tri-Cobalt devices? Or send over a shuttle loaded with anitmatter/matter? They didn't do that, so there has to be a reason. The easiest and most plausible reason being modifying torpedoes is hard. It may take hours to make a bigger and more stable warhead. Meanwhile to take out my proposed shield disruption device would probably take seconds if you dawdled. besides when fighting a starship you know has a warp core which is more useful, blunt damage or disrupting the warp core? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
which episode are you talking about?if i havent seen the episode recently/ever then i cant comment on the situation. and usualy when you refrence an episode its usualy FAR from a correct assesment of what ACTUALY happened.[its usualy copy and paste BS from stardestoyer.net,like thier Insurection assesment,DEAD wrong] and by the way,damaging the warp core only effects warp drive capability,nothing else.weapons,shields,impulse drive,they dont run on the warp core,only warp does. besides,why couldnt they just LEAVE ? maybe destroying the ship would send gamma radiation spreading throu a nearby star system? i dont know,i need the episode name so i can watch it,more then likley the answer is said during the episode.
This is actually explained in the episode. It had an "energy dampening field" - which incidentally prevented matter/antimatter reactions from taking place. Which are, incidentally, what fuel the Enterprise's main power banks as well as being the photon torpedo yields. Why does "Changeling" indicate - directly - that it takes 450 times the yield of a photon torpedo to drop shields? Ever heard of cuts? Remember in Nemesis where the Scimitar takes the E-E's entire photon torpedo stores and has 70% shields remaining? I'm not going to say that shields don't sometimes drop in a hurry, and that sometimes stuff gets through shields... but the same can be said of SW ships. It's not a difference. We're talking about a multi-kilometer wide event on something over a thousand miles wide. Pretty big scale. Dude... that it was even theoretically possible says loads about how much juice those babies put out. Splitting a rock that big in two is a hairy problem considering just gravity. EAS scales it as 600 meters. And starfleetjedi.net explains why it takes a crapload of energy to destroy a large inert object, based on the effect of phasers on it. Even one that's been made brittle by a thousand years of wear and tear should take a metric crapload of energy to clean out of the asteroid field for good. And yet torpedos have their most dramatic effect on shields when set to proximity, as seen in "Workforce." It's really weird how shields go down in Trek, isn't it? Which would mean an antimatter-fueled ST ship would be able to block just about everything a fusion-powered SW ship can throw at it. And a turbolaser bolt is about as focused and predictable an attack as you get, so your theory gives a good reason why photon torpedos would be good in particular, but doesn't give turbolasers anything like that sort of advantage.
Then the ship would have done no damage. Come one brian power think. That would be all shield arc and all emitters. To screw up a ship you only need to drop one and just keep hitting there. 70% front shields which they scored very few hits on. Actually the only times you see shields drop in a hurry are: 1: TPM: Queen Amidala's light transports shield are taken out by capital class turbo lasers. 2: TPM: Somehow the Naboo starships shield did not protectthe launch bays. Which could be becuase they were frieghter pressed into war duty. 3: ROTS: You see the the docking bay shields on Grievous' ship drop after the generators are taken out by Anakin Solo. this of course during heavy large fleet engagements that had previous stripped the ship of other shielding 4: ESB: When the Hotth Planetary defense Ion Canon shorted out an entire Star Destroyer. A multikilometer event based on a glow that could, and you must admit this, appear larger than it really was. True, but ten again a SW world would have just raised shield let it het and be dome with it. Yes, but the Empire destroys planets and you call them insignificant. It was not even two thirds the size of Enterprise-D so 600 meters is BS. it takes a crapload of energy to vaporize said object, but when they are brittle blowing them to smithereens is easy. As for destroying the asteroid belt it took them days and I'll bet tri-cobalt devices and inventive uses of tractor beams. Well then this just proves my theory is more likely. it fits that profile. Actually no it's not. They can take many small tasks, but one large one and they are screwed. Well that might be true I imagine a Y-Wing woud have a hell of a time agiant the Eneterprise-D, even with her light Ion cannons. However you are forgeting that just becuase fusion powers many things from portable laps to starships, does not mean ALL starships are fusion based. you're being far too literal with a vague statement. As for having more power, it doesn't work well if you emitters cannot handle the strain. [quotes]And a turbolaser bolt is about as focused and predictable an attack as you get, so your theory gives a good reason why photon torpedos would be good in particular, but doesn't give turbolasers anything like that sort of advantage.[/QUOTE] I agree those light turbolasers ranging from 6 to 120 megatons will not be horrendously more effective than the 5.2 to 10.4 megatons phasers. However the Ion Cannons and 25 gigaton Heavy Turbo lasers will shred ships in nothing flat.
Try again. Secondary power systems were not damped, and those are fusion. The overloaded impulse engines? Fusion reaction, not M/AM, i.e., not affected by the dampening field. Actually, that was one specific location in the case of "Changeling." Each single hit (of the five, each of which took off 20% of shielding) was 90 times as energetic as a photon torpedo. No, 70% shields. Period. And if you look at where the hits were scored, quite a few were front, made during a Scimitar attack run. And ROTJ, where the first ships were destroyed within minutes of engagement. And in ANH, where the Rebel blockade runner got disabled and towed into the ISD's bays in a very short time. In other words, all the time. Look at the picture again. The glow has defined internal structure and clearly defined edges. It's not blurry, and it's clearly not "larger than it really was." You're now talking about a SW world defending itself from being split in two like a moon-sized asteroid by a ST ship. That alone should tell you about the firepower gap. I never called the Empire (or Death Star) insignificant. In fact, the Death Star is quite impressive. EAS is one of the best sites out there for scaling. I'll trust them over your complete lack of any shown work any day of the eek. As for destroying the asteroid, it took seconds and a stock model torpedo. "One large one" clearly includes energy bolts a hundred times as powerful (or more) as typical phaser blasts and Romulan plasma torpedos capable of imploding solid multi-kilometer asteroids. Which easily subtends the range of bolt yields. It's not vague at all. Nor are the other references vague. Not to mention, a few Y-Wings can do quite a number on an ISD. The Invisible Hand is a warship capable of competing with any other in its weight class... and uses explosive clear liquid fuel. Turbolaser bolts, which overall might range up to 100 megatons in the highest yield cases, aren't going to be impressive next to the gigaton phasers and gigaton torpedos of TNG's visuals, or even too much next to the 60 megatons of TNGTM torpedos using a realistic firing rate. You can try to justify lots of those bolts being fired vs very few phasers/torpedos, but you have to stretch a lot, such as your completely arbitrary 25 gigaton claim.
Even though you are gone, I have just put you on my ignore list. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
As in the other thread - you are a Rabid Warsie who only cares about Star Wars winning no matter the facts. Screw off Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
