Define true Intelligence

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by Captain_Crunch, Jun 20, 2002.

  1. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    So basically your argument is that since your passage was longer it was much more intelligent then mine.

    So intelligence is according to you measured purely by who can talk the longest.
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Nope. You have to be able to say nothing useful in a long roundabout way.

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  5. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Dimwitter is trying to be clever. While fedr666 does not realize even a two year old can say yucky, but lacks the ability to give logical reasons for why he thinks this is true.
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  7. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    So when I stated my opinion you said it was intelligent. But when you insult us then its suddenly intelligent?

    What on earth gave you the delusion that you are the one entity in this reality that gets the right to define what is and what isn't intelligent?
  8. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    How true.
  9. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Wrong again. When I try to be clever I succeed. OTH deliberately mis-spelling a poster's name is a banning offence.

    Much the same as a two year old can make shit up without giving any sensible rationale?
  10. wellwisher Banned Banned

    I am only insulting in response to insults. Dywyddr tends to leach off me, by oftering the same collection of insults as distraction. If he is getting paid by the post, he should give me a cut.

    When a tag team of insulters starts insulting one person, without oftering any alternative explanation, I should be allowed to play hard ball too. I would prefer stick to the subject. If there is a point that is not clear, ask a question.

    Dywyddr, if you can think of a better explanation, share it with us. If you want, I can then pretend intelligence, using your template of saying some variation of "yucky" and calling your explanation some variation of hot air. Or I can challenge with arguments. Either way is fine, but the argument way is more challenging and takes more intelligence.
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    False and false.
    You haven't been insulted, you have been advised to get an education and stop posting rubbish.

    Ever wondered why there's a "tag team"? Offer alternatives? To nonsense? You persist in making statements that are unsupported. And have, previously, failed to answer questions.

    Challenging with arguments would be good. As opposed posting unsubstantiated crap.
  12. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Wellwisher, the one problem with your entire line of reasoning is that you assume that you are actually intelligent.

    You have yet to give evidence to the contrary, so thus far were not insulting you, we are simply stating facts.
  13. wellwisher Banned Banned

    You still haven't said anything relavent to the subject, beyond catering to your own subjective bias. This is called emotional thinking.

    Let me explain how emotional thinking works so you can learn to control it. Emotions can induce thoughts and thoughts can induce emotions. This occurs because the limbic system, which is involved in emotions, also plays a major role in the creation of memory. The limbic-cerebral connection creates a dual association within memory. This is useful for an animals since he can assess reality with good and bad feelings.

    For example, if I started to talk about good food, some people will start to get hungry. On the other hand, if I started to get hungry, images of food will often appear in the mind, as to what you might want to eat. This may cause me to decide to eat at the buffet or seafood. The dual nature of the memory can be triggered from either direction, thought inducing a feeling (talk about food making you hungry) or feeling inducing thoughts (feeling hungry and you start to think about a steak).

    In depression, the dual nature of memory can create resonance problems, since the bad feelings and bad thoughts can be induced starting from either direction. One can wake up sad. This sad feeling can cause them to think about their sadness, recalling certain memories of why you are sad. These memories, in turn, can reinforce the sadness, making the sadness worse. This deeper sadness makes you think even about worse things, etc. This resonance of the dual memory can swing too far for some people. Drugs try to break the emotional side of the dual memory by numbing the feelings. Talking tries to disrupt the thoughts to break the feelings.

    With emotional thinking you start with a strong emotion, such as anger or hate. Then based on that feeling, you start to rationalize as the associated thoughts appear. I do this too, when I talk about atheism. After many years of abuse by atheists, the very thought makes me want to get aggressive. This feeling can fuel my thinking, unless I calm that emotion and get back to ideas and reasons that are objective, without emotions.

    Sometime an emotional attack, such as in these forums, is designed to trigger an emotional-thinking loop using a negative feeling. I used to fall for the bait, because I was in my creative mode and this could help me create new angles. But now I try to recycle my best ideas, that have been through the wash dozens of times. These idea make me feel calm.

    If you want I can play the emotional thinking game for old times sake. But nobody benefits, although it does help people vent emotions.
  14. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Neither have you.

    In your case it's called bullshitting.

    Oops, error on your part.

    Besides my plea for you stop posting drivel could I also ask for you stop making assumptions (or projecting). Thank you.
  15. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member


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  16. wellwisher Banned Banned

    This discussion of intelligence is being done within the topic technology; intelligence and machines. As such, rather than talk philosophy, which would be more appropriate in philosophy, I assumed this techie discussion was looking for hardware and software hints to help with AI. Therefore I thought it might be useful to discuss some of my relavent observations and ideas that are less than obvious, since the more obvious mainstream thinking is not exactly helping the process of AI. The AI people are on their own trying software solutions.

    The brain does intelligence differently, because it is based on hardware. First and foremost, the potential for intelligence is connected to neuron hardware design. If you could design computer memory that worked in the general schema of neurons, the rest of the task is mostly directing entropy increase (new degrees of freedom) as the memory naturally moves, toward lower energy and higher entropy.

    Neurons need to constantly expend energy, to pump and exchange potassium and sodium ions. This energy and pumping will lower cationic entropy by changing a more uniform solution of these cations, into a segregated gradient. This gradient is not stable in water, which is the beauty of the design. The forward pumping into full energy/entropy potential is relatively simple. Going the other way, down the energy and entropy hills, has infinite variations. This is the beginning of smart.

    If we had such computer memory hardware, all charged up, full of potential energy and lowered entropy, once a chain reaction begins and the memory starts to moves back toward lowest energy and higher entropy, a wide range of possible paths and responses can appear which will be different each time. Once you get the hardware to work and can recharge it quickly, you learn to direct this flow of energy and entropy down narrower paths to see what random arrangements appear in the tube.

    If you look at intelligence, such as solving a problem on an IQ test, the question means sensory input and conscious focus, that will trigger neurons to fire. The cascade begins. This cascade of entropy is funnelled down our relavent structural memory. Since the entropy is increasing as we go down the cascade of firing neurons, there will be variance (entropy increase) about stock memory; eureka. One can get an answer that was not directly in memory, but related in terms of a new degree of freedom.

    Someone with a good IQ can funnel the induced cascade along certain lines. But there are many more paths in the brain, such as those for art and music. The writer might get writer's block. The cascade is working by his conscious focus but is not creating anything totally unique, just small variations about common themes in memory from reading. Suddenly a new variation appears in the entropy stream. Now the cascade goes down this new path, creating the story entropy and variance.

    An analogy is pumping water into a tank of wood. As the potential builds there will be leaks. This wooden tank is not meant to be leak proof, but to leak. As the potential builds more, there are more leaks while the old leaks get bigger. Eventually we settle into using only the bigger leaks for specialty variations. Normal IQ has a nice big funnel to direct the cascade for entropy variance down the path of the intellect. Wide reading allows subpaths for entropy to increase within the memory; new applications.
  17. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    For starters, you don't know the first thing about computer AI.

    Secondly, you don't know the first thing about philosophy.
  18. Vishwanath Rao Registered Member

    I don't think He/She meant physical adaptation,But whatever we are is because of this adaptation.Our ability to change our reaction to a particular situation defines intelligence.I think.
  19. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

    Intelligence is to build with Cause to create your own Effect. The more Cause you can build with for a single effect the better.

    The main causes are...

    1) Mathematics
    2) Visual imaging
    3) Animated Imaging
    4) Dexterity
    5) Speed
    6) 3D Spacial Awareness
    7) Spacial Dismantalization
    8) Memory Recap

    ... obviously I am going to miss a few.

    So, for example, you think of a random subject, then apply as many skills as you can to that subject which will be all called ...Cause...


    Subject = Draw a Leaf


    memory recap = green, shaded, fractal
    Animation = Bendy.. so add some bends to it
    3D spacial Awareness = 3D bends, the sun is above the leaf, add light above, which adds transparency to leaf, which shows up veins, which are fractal, add some shine
    Spacial Dismantalization = used for internal structure visible through transparency
    Mathematics = There is some regulatory distances between leaf parts

    you draw the leaf.

    The more Causes you can blast through your brain before an effect the better.

    How is that Free Will?

    This way of using Cause, and Effect is stalling the effect, you choose when you want the effect to happen.
  20. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    Is that like off the Fence , Wow I didn't know that ? You mean I could of been banned by Alphalphanumnutic for calling him Alfalfa . Wow . I don't think Alphalfa is one to report . He lives by the sword and dies by the sword . That I admire about him
  21. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    I woke up thinking about parents projecting this morning . It lead to thinking about the overall idea of projecting by misreading a persons feeling .

    Just because it makes Me cry don't mean it makes you cry . That is what I learning in the last 24 hr.

    People do it all the time . Tunnel vision. If I like it you must like it too. How could you not like it if I like it .

    Because I am not you . Communication brake down it's always the same were having a nervous brake down . You drive me insane

  22. Emil Valued Senior Member

    To be happy.

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  23. Fuse26 011 Banned

    In-tell-igence is to know something but not tell of it: im-possible means that something is not possible, so intelligence is not to tell.

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    This is just as there is in-hale or ex-hale: the prefix 'in-' means not but because hale begins with a 'h' the 'm' becomes an 'n'. 'Ex-' means AFTER; i.e. ex-tinct (or in-stinct), ex-trapolate (in-trepid) or ex-ploration (im-ploration); ex-plore or im-plore. 'In-' (or 'im-') is also the same as 'pre-' (or 'pro-'). The prefix 'pre-' simply means before (which means to 'BE-FORE'); i.e. the verb has not been actioned. The opposite of this is to action the verb once, and then once again (AGAIN-st), or 'RE-'.

    I would say there are pro's (be-fore) or con's (again-st): con-stitution or pro-stitution, con-science or pre-cious and con-ception (re-ception or ex-ception) or in-ception. Just a few examples.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011

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