Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by piffi, Aug 8, 2001.

  1. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Conclusion: Humans and Animals behave in the same way.

    Wild Dogs is a bad example of how humans treat their dogs. They wouldn't escape if their 'owners' should pay more attention to them.

    A newborn Gazelle is a weak Animal who can get caught by the so called predators. It is nasty to look at, but it is Nature. Ever seen how much Gazelles there are??

    A Bird of Prey will get itself an easy prey if it gets the chance. So does a house Cat. A Cat will get to a Mouse if she/he has the possibility and even play with it. How rude of the Cat...

    Humans go on purpose killing other humans with bombs and other heavy weapons. They kill thousands of humans every day. Look at the holy wars and look at what is going on right now with this so called war on terrorisme. That is not Natural. That is pure killing because the one nation wants to have control over the other. Humans invent more dangerous weapons every day, just to kill another nation. Perhaps the so called world leaders better spend their money at projects to feed the starving humans in parts of the world, in stead of fighting eachother.

    Animals do have only their Natural weapons, no inventions what so ever. They 'kill' to eat. Just like humans did, long ago.

    Something completely different.

    But in a way you are very right. Humans should behave more like humans, with feelings in stead of bombing. We just have to make sure we keep on talking...
    And have more patience towards one another.

    (I don't want to be involved in a discussion about the war on terrorisme...that is another Forum.)

    Have a nice day...
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  3. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

    orthogonal ...

    Oh my god!

    Another RR* on the forum!

    And an idealistic dreamer to boot!
    (Don't worry, I won't hold it against you)

    How un-PC to point out how unrealistic most
    peoples views of 'Mother Nature' are.

    Hang in there! And, take care.

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    *Rational Realist.
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  5. orthogonal Registered Senior Member

    Thank you for your nice reply, Banshee.

    Actually, I tend to think that it is natural to kill each other. Male animals routinely fight and occasionally kill each other to gain access to females for mating. Bears in Alaska will occasionally kill other bears that attempt to steal “their” fishing spot on a salmon stream. In neither case does the animal care to eat the other animal. Men kill for exactly the same reasons.

    The concept of technologically advanced military aircraft is no different than the concept a monkey employs when he uses a stick to hit his opponent instead of his hand. Large proportions of the ethical problems we have result from men refusing to rise above their animal origins. If you strike me, my emotionally natural response is to strike you back harder. But my intellect tells me that this is a stupid response. Look at the Palestinians and the Israelis today. Their behavior unfortunately is perfectly natural. A Palestinian suicide bomber kills an Israeli and the Israelis responds by killing Palestinians. This will only stop when men on both sides come to understand that the color of the flag flying over that wretched little spot of earth means nothing compared to the misery inflicted on all by their animal behavior. They must rise above their selfish natural instincts to see the common good of cooperation rather than contention.

    Men are uniquely gifted with the possibility to think and act rationally. If we do not realize this possibility, then we deserve to consider ourselves no better than the wild beasts. In every other respect, men are inferior to the beasts. Our eyesight, our hearing, our sense of smell, and our physical strength are vastly inferior to certain other animals. Animals act from instinct and emotion. We may only claim superiority over the wild beasts if we use our intellect to fashion a world based on rationality, instead of on primitive instinct and emotion. We have the potential to become much better than mere animals. If we never rise above natural emotional responses, I’m afraid there would be little hope for our species.

    Banshee, I’m not sure if I understand your point about the gazelles correctly. I think you are saying that there are so many gazelles that nature takes some of them to keep the population in check. If you are saying this, then I agree with you. I agree, and yet I curse this brutal idea conceived by nature. If men used this model of nature for our own behavior, then we would routinely fly with our B52’s over Africa and bomb selected groups of people, rather than let their population rise so high as to create a famine. The predator-prey model evolved by nature is a contemptible solution! Rational men must do better for ourselves than to merely mimic nature.

    Have a nice week,
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2001
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  7. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Very good reply Orthogonal. Thank you, good to have a nice discussion here.

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    The African humans are dying any way because of all the diseases and starvation. So no need to bomb them. They are taken care of already. And no help for them in sight what so ever.
    So, conclusion, Nature takes away the most part of them by starvation. A very rotten way to die don't you think..?
    Perhaps the great world leaders should do something about that in stead of bombing everybody, including a lot of innocent humans who don't want to have a thing to do with these rotten wars.

    If they are so intelligent why don't they help other humans in stead of fighting them? Animals kill yes, but not so frequently and nasty as humans can do. If humans react because of their intellect, well, I guess they lack something then.

    What about Intuition? That is something we humans do have also. Why not handle from there? Put away your intellectual way of thinking and try for a change to act only by intuition...
    Doesn't mean you don't have to think, for that is what humans have conceived through evolution. It is the way they act with that way of thinking and make their destructive inventions.

    They do a lot of harm to Earth and Nature by acting like this. That is what concerns me the most. Planet Earth is going to be ruined because of all the new weapons they invent.

    You are right about the Israelites, yes. It seems like they have developed a natural killer instinct. Rather sad, don't you think...
    A whole nation going under in pain and sorrow because they don't want to give in, in any way. It really hurts me to see all this happening now a days and then I mean the US also with their bombing and interfering. They have a reason to do so they think, but take a lot of innocent lives also.

    Why not take only the ones who are a real treat to the human race? because they know exactly who that are...

    And I am not for the Arabs, but only for the Planet and think that it would be better to take away the real nasty characters in stead of bombing whole countries with more and more heavy bombs.

    'Now frontiers shift like desert sands
    While nations wash their blooded hands
    Of loyalty, of history in shades of grey...'- P.Floyd

    Now I am wandering of to the war on terrorisme, I am sorry. I will go back on topic right away.

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    By the way, the Animals, all of them, were on Earth far before the first man like figure started to think for the first time. Guess the Animals stayed on their natural way and men kind tried to climb up on the ladder.
    Don't know if that was really a good thing. In so far that they made real good inventions also, but never seem to have enough. Always trying to invent new things, which are not really necessarry for the human race to survive. It is only polluting Earth and the Universe.
    Why do they have to go up in Space while there is a lot of work to do here on Earth? Help other humans for instance. Try to be more kind to their neighbours, to start close to home. And act from there.

    Chagur, I am not a dreamer. If that was the case I shouldn't be so involved with the latest developments IN the US.
    And yes, I am using a computer, so I can reach you RR's a little better.

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    Have a good day you both. Bye...
  8. Bobby Lee member Registered Senior Member

    My opinion ........

    These are all very good points concerning many faucets of Life and death. I think a respect of Life is the point!


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  9. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    There you are very right Bobby Lee. Respect for Life, Nature and Earth...

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    And death...for that is part of Life...

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