Death vs. Life Imprisonment

Nephilim

Here, here. Bring back the chain gang!!! Im up for that option. Im still very supportive of the death penalty, but Id be willing to change my mind if they took those kind of steps. I seen a special about a Arizona prison system. No luxuries! Meaning no coffee, no cells, they sleep out in the desert under tents. Of course their fenced in, but I think all jails should be like that. To hell with TV and stereos and computers.

Oh, and bullets, I like your idea too

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Yeah, I think if they were condemed to the chain gang for life that would be great. They would sweep, mow the grass along highways, rebuild dilapidated buildings and clean up those cities for the rest of their existence.

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Ya, I'd be willing to eradicate the death penalty, if we brought back the chain gang. At least you'd know they would be put to some good uses. But then there will be those people... "Oh, its too cruel and unusual of a punishment." It never fails...


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ICALOB ...

Re. "One .45 bullet= .59 cents. "

Why the overcost/overkill?

A .22 LR HP to the base of the skull suffices.

If I'm not mistaken the Mossad takes care of things very
nicely with sub-sonic .22 Shorts and silenced Walthers.

Take care

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Yes of course, but knives and nooses are re-usable.

 

ICALOB ...

So is the garrote ... and no problem with airport security.

Take care

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Danielle Source for quote needed.

Danielle.

First of all what good is the quote without the source, and source notes? howabout a url please.

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Second, I would like the see the death penalty enforced in most states as it is in FL. I would also like to see that there was some clear cut way for the decedent's family to be compensated adequately when the State screws up and presents a purely circumstantial case and gets a conviction of the WRONG person. ONE of the reasons the captital cases are so much more expensive to the state (us), is that they are being sure all the I/s are dotted and T's crossed, which they don't do in the perponderance of cases, many of which have NO business clogging up the courts.

Take that rediculous dog and pony show in TX. WHY Yates muredered her five kids is NOT the issue. DID she? Yes, good, give her the shot and shut up. SHE didn't NEED due process. She did it, she admitted she did it, she was aware of what she was doing WHEN she did it. Okay end of discussion. Her hsuband did and excellent job of proving to me that you can be a rocket scientist AND a moron... The dog and pony show was for ONE reason, to make sure that IF the jury came back with the death penalty, the state could not be sued by the husband, whom I BLAME for those kids deaths. DID he do it, no, but he also didn't make his wife get the meds and treatment she NEEDED... Of course GOD was going to cure her (he needed to read that story about abrham and Isacc a few more times)...

Did the medical community fail her? Yes it did, and it failed ME too. I sit in a wheelchair because and incompetent resident didn't know what the hell he was doing with a knife. What does this have to do with whether she was or was not aware of what she did at the time she did it. NOTHING. I take one hell of a lot more morphine daily than she was NOT taking haldol, and I am aware of what I do, or don't.

You may not be aware of it, but a Federal DA can and will file charges on "hot button" issues, whether there is ANY case or NOT! THAT is pure waste, but he's protecting his job fulfiling politically mandated prosecutions--and if he get's lucky, he'l get a promotion, uh, hey, that isn't what he's THERE for, is it? Would you like to know what happens to him if he files such a case and loses? Nothing--it doesn't matter if the FBI trashes somebody all over the TV. It doesn't matter if they destroy personal perproperty siezed as 'evidence' that has nothing to do with the alleged "crime". It doesn't matter that they destroy someones life, and it doesn't mater if it destroyes relationships. All the DA did was file a case for which there was ZERO evidence, right? The guy gets off, eventually after sitting in PRISON for eight months WITHOUT A BAIL HEARING. So he can go back to what he was doing before, right--good freaking luck after the media got done frying him on 80 channels...

If these bureaucrats would DO their jobs instead of CREATING crimes (such as smoking in a LA Park), or declaring harmless weeds "narcotics" these trials wouldn't cost millions of dollars. HOW many victimless crimes are heard DAILY? HOW many child abuse cases exist ONLY in the imaginations of vindictive teenagers, but are brought by incompetent bureaucrats? Date rape? Give me a break! If she didn't want to do it, why was she NAKED in the backseat of his car, bed, motel/dorm room, huh? HOW many of these cases have NO business being heard AT ALL. How many of the so called felonies exist purely for political control purposes?

Then there is the antiquated technologies such as some states accepting polygraphs as valid evidence when it was disproved repeatedly FORTY years ago. MOST are still using tape transcribing devices rather than the laptop varieties which can provide the text the SAME HOUR.

Again, with Yates, they should have just given her the shot and been done with it. Instead she'll spend forty years washing dope hookers undershorts. While this may well be WORSE than death, it's going to cost the State of Texas a mere 2.4 MILLION on TOP of the cost of the dog and pony show. Keep in mind that left to REASONABLE counsel, she should have plead guilty and accepted the death sentence. Instead she pleads on that inanity rap which everybody knows isn't going to hold water in TEXAS, and they have a dog and pony show so the lawyer makes some REAL money (and gets plenty of FREE advertizing he COULDN'T buy if he wanted to...

As to due process, the cops, prosecutors and injustice system threw it out the window DECADES ago. RICO is in clear violation of due process but it exists. At the federal level conspiracy (two people discussing a crime CAN occur or not) carries the same time as DOING it--how many YEARS are wasted by the Feds prosecuitng things that NEVER happened? HOW many "criminals" are we supporting who have NO business in prison in the first place? Too many. WHY? To justify the JD's FBI's & BOP's size and budgets.

This is what it comes down to, the STATES & FEDS don't want the death penalty, because they'd ULTIMATELY have to cut jobs and NOT be able to justify OTHER tax increases.

Mr. K

 

mrk,

***WHY Yates muredered her five kids is NOT the issue.***

It's one of the issues.

***DID she? Yes, good, give her the shot and shut up.***

If she was insane at the time then she should not be held criminally responsible.

***SHE didn't NEED due process.***

Like it or not, everyone is entitled to due process under the law.

***She did it, she admitted she did it, she was aware of what she was doing WHEN she did it.***

All true. So, why did she do it, then? Because she WANTED her children dead? No. Because she WANTED to face the death penalty herself? No. Because she WANTED to spend the rest of her life in prison rather than with her family? No.

She did it because, in the throes of insanity, she believed that Satan was coming for her children. In the throes of insanity, she did what she believed was best for her children - she saved them from the grips of Satan and the fires of hell and gave them to God - with whom they would be safe. Her children were trapped. The fire of hell was closing in on them with no means for them to escape and, in the throes of insanity, she mercifully filled a bathtub with water, drowned them, and gave them up to God in order to prevent them from having to suffer the torment of being burned alive in hell. She knew that what she was doing was wrong "in the eyes of the state". That is why she called 911 immediately, turned herself in and confessed.

She was WILLING to face the death penalty rather than have her children suffer at the hand of Satan. She was WILLING to spend the rest of her life in prison rather than have her children suffer at the hand of Satan. In the throes of her insanity, she was WILLING to give up her own life to the state to save her children from the torment of hell. In the throes of her insanity, she knew that it would have been MORE WRONG if she had allowed Satan to take her children - it would have been MORE WRONG if she had allowed them to suffer the torment of burning in hell. The relative degree of "right" and "wrong" had been changed in Andrea Yates' mind. Why? Because she was insane. She was not criminally responsible. She was insane. She should spend time in a mental institution - not a prison.

***Okay end of discussion.***

 

ICALOB & Chagur,
You two are dangerously close to (being accused of) enjoying killing!

 

Re: Danielle Source for quote needed.

And how is that?

Well… apparently not.

Could your significant other force you to take medication that you did not want to? In any event, let’s stick the needle in his arm, too.

Line up the doctors, the nurses, the councilors… inject ‘em.

I don’t know, how many? Do you have a cite?

Ever hear of the drug GHB? Even if no drug is involved, I don’t care if she’s naked and rolls the condom onto him. Once a person says “no”, it stops. Period.

I don’t know, how many? Do you have a cite?

Could you back that up with a reference? Is cost a factor?

Could you back that up with a reference, please?

I’m sorry, I missed the presentation of the credentials that permit you to define what reasonable counsel is.

Would you take a moment to argue that point so that we can understand your view?

Please provide us with supporting information for this claim.


Or perhaps that was all just a rant?

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Peace.

 

Death Penalty

You don't have to be rude. I'm just giving you facts. Look it up for yourself, I'm not gonna do your homework for you.

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I don't think he was being rude, actually. Most of us would prefer to know the source of your information (as I was so delicately pointing out to him also); otherwise we cannot judge the accuracy of your comments. It is not considered homework, just validation.

Look it up ourselves? Well... I did, with some effort, (and courteously posted a link so fellow board members could review it also) and the paper your facts are pulled from is somewhat dated, yes?

Peace.

---Edit: added link to my previous post ---

 

You've got to be kidding. You know the thing that bugs me most about this case, is that people are not taking responsiblity for their actions. Mentally ill? Yes. But she knew the difference between right and wrong. *****End of Discussion***** as you would say blond_cupid. Even if she did think Satan was coming for her children, she should know that a person doesnt have the right to take the lives of her children. If she was believed in God and Satan and was a religous person, then she really should of known that it was wrong. She did it, she admitted to it, she should have to pay the price. Like I said in an earlier post: Dahmer, Bundy, the Zodiac - these were mentally ill people, like it or not - but they knew what they were doing. In my book, she is just as bad and should be labeled a serial killer herself.


Oh, and back to the death penalty - I found this quote I thought was pretty funny.
"Capitol punishment turns the state into a murderer. But impisonment turns the state into a gay dungeon-master."
(Rev. Jesse Jackson)


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I have better things to do than argue online about this. I know the facts- If I had the time I could get you recent information, but that's not possible today, maybe some other time.

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"But impisonment turns the state into a gay dungeon-master."

I know some homophobes for who I think it would be 'educational'

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to be sent to prison. hehehehe

 

http://www.ncadp.org/html/fact3.html

I have this for you to look at now. I don't think the info is outdated, these are last years numbers

 

Don't get me wrong; I am against the death penalty also. But your most recent link is, arguably, a biased website whose statement of “facts” also have no supporting information. Look for data from state or federal agencies to bolster your position. I believe it is correct to a degree, but you’ll have to show us.

Peace.

 

stRgrL,

***You know the thing that bugs me most about this case, is that people are not taking responsiblity for their actions.***

Andrea Yates took responsibility for her actions. According to her videotaped testimony, she knew that she would have to answer to the state for what she had done. She called 911. She turned herself in. She confessed.

***Mentally ill? Yes. But she knew the difference between right and wrong. *****End of Discussion***** as you would say blond_cupid.***

(Actually, it was mrk who I was quoting as having said "End of Discussion". I thought that remark was laughable.)

Anyway. Yes, Andrea Yates was mentally ill when she killed her children. In fact, she was insane - and as an insane person she should have been found "not guilty" by reason of insanity. Yes, she knew the difference between right and wrong but not in the sane sense that you and I know it. Her perception of right and wrong was relative to her insanity. She knew that killing her children was wrong is the eyes of the state, however, in her mind it was right for her to kill her children because it would have been MORE WRONG if she did not kill them and instead allowed Satan to get ahold of them.

***Even if she did think Satan was coming for her children, she should know that a person doesnt have the right to take the lives of her children.***

She knew that she did not have that right in the eyes of the state (the law). However, in her mind she rationalized that she was doing the right thing for her children by saving them from Satan's eternal torment and giving them to God.

Let me ask you something, stRgrL...

Suppose a mother and her five children had been trapped in an interior bathroom of a home fully involved in fire with no way out and no hope of being rescued and the mother, in an act of mercy, drowned her children rather than have them suffer through the torment of being burned alive. What would you think of THAT woman?

***If she was believed in God and Satan and was a religous person, then she really should of known that it was wrong.***

Again, she knew that it was wrong in the eyes of the state. However, in her insane mind, she thought it was right to give her children to God rather than let Satan have them. Again, her perception of right and wrong was relative to her insanity.

 

BTW stRgrL,

***Dahmer, Bundy, the Zodiac - these were mentally ill people, like it or not - but they knew what they were doing. In my book, she is just as bad and should be labeled a serial killer herself.***

I do not agree. Their motives were quite different. In her insanity, Mrs. Yates believed that, by drowning her children, she was saving them from eternal evil and torment at the hand of Satan. Did Dahmer, Bundy or the Zodiac call 911 immediately, turn themselves in and confess?