Death vs. Life Imprisonment

No if i lost someone to murder i would hope i had the courage to forgive the murderer but in any case i would hope that people would ignore what i thought and that Impartial justice would prevail. I also hope that you are never found guily of a muder you don't comit and are put to death by a justice system that is unfair and babaric

 

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Barbaric, adj. 1.lacking civilizing influences; 2.primitive

Primitive, adj. 1.being the first or earliest of the kind or in existence

Now can someone please explain how the death penalty is consirdered barbaric?
Hanging in town square, beheading, torture chambers, firing squad, oh and my personal fave, death by electricity (being sarcastic) We give a person a shot and they go to sleep and never wake up. Sounds real cruel and unusual to me. Lets just throw em all in a prison and let the AIDS statitcs keep growing in numerous numbers. CMF, which is a really big prison here in Northen California has 1/3 inmates infected with AIDS. And then pretty soon they'll twice as many prisons and people will do more crimes because they know they wont die for it. And they know the worse consequence will be sitting in a cell with cable tiv and 3 meals a day. Do you guys honestly believe thats punishment? Call me old fashioned, but they dont use it enough!

Now, Im ready for all the cruel insults, and even if I dont agree with someone, I would never put someone down and call them dumb. I think thats pretty immature, but, thats just my opinion.

And you know what I think of opinions

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I am sorry about that (i thought you were insulting me in the post above it)

But as to your questions it is primative to kill someone (it was the same pratice in the Roman empire) to say that you use a better method dose not change that (and how long ago was someone hung in the US, i seem to rember something about one only a couple of years ago)

We are supost to be civalised (i appologise for my spelling) and you are telling me that with all our superier knowlage we can't think of a better way to deal with people who break our laws.

Lets all die for J-walking

would u call someone who mudered someone babaric.
yes well i think the same of any SOCIATY that condones the DP

(hope none of this offended you)

 

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*stRgrl*,
Firstly: I do realize that some things I wrote are not what one would call constructive and I apologize sincerely for the insults. You see I can get carried away: this is a subject very close to my heart. It really hurts for me when I read "pro-death" posts. I value life very much. So much for me loosing my patience. :-\
But this also brings me to this: I would like to know your reaction to the more constructive things I have written.

Now back to your posts:

I can. Since the most primitive (i.e. first of its kind) reaction to being hurt is to cause pain to the cuase of that pain this kind of reaction is barbaric.
Institutionalizing (in the sense of having it made institutional), and ritualizing retribution does not change the fact that retribution is in principle barbaric.
(BTW Freud once said that the first person who was civilized was the (wo)man who called an other names instead of hiting them on the head with a rock. Maybe it was a civilized act calling your ideas stupid, after all

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)

Needless to say, I hope with all my heart that nobody close to me gets murdered, raped, tortured, etc. But if it does happen I hope, just like Asguard, that independent jsutice will prevail and that I am kept away from the purpetrator.

I am not sure what you mean by "... has 1/3 inmates infected with AIDS. And then pretty soon they'll twice as many prisons and people will do more crimes because they know they wont die for it. And they know the worse consequence will be sitting in a cell with cable tiv and 3 meals a day."
Was this meant to be something like "the prospect of being locked away in room does not deter"? if so: read one of my former posts- crime rates are higher in countries and states with the death panelty!
Furthermore; I thought people value their freedom very highly. Having this taken away seems quite a serious punishment to me.

I am not at all a softy. But I believe in just punishment. And capital punishment is not just: two wrongs do not make a right.

enough for now.
hope good fortune will meet you
Merlijn

 

*... crime rates are higher in countries and states with the death panelty!
Furthermore; I thought people value their freedom very highly. Having this taken away seems quite a serious punishment to me.*

Exactly!

Perhaps people living in a country where the death penalty is a common habit, should think about this a little more and look into their minds what it would do to them if it were they who are on the death row.

I would be very shocked and sad and probably ful of anger when someone dear to me got murdered. Doesn't take away the fact that I never, and I mean never ever should want to have anything to do with the killing of the murderer. Then I am just as bad as the murderer him/herself!

It is about time that every country where the death penalty still is a fact, gets rid of this barbaric behaviour...

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I don't know about that, Asguard. I am reasonably certain that if a loved one was murdered, I would be enraged, and demand that justice be served, and an eye for an eye… all despite my somewhat pacifistic leanings. That is precisely the reason that it must be considered before it gets to that point. On NPR this morning there was a blurb about Illinois’ prisoners on death row. Thirteen of twenty-four where exonerated. That is a scary statistic.

The maxim "the punishment ought to fit the crime" is one of our most enduring foundations of criminal justice. We are offended when we do not think the guilty have been punished enough and we chafe at the story of Jean Valjean. There is evidently something hardwired in our brains that tells us what, at least generally, appropriate standards of punishment are. In an IRC discussion recently, someone stated, “without this idea of appropriateness, there is no justice.”

Why? What is the rational justification for this appropriateness? How can we possibly accept this as a guideline for punishment when standards of "punishments fitting crimes" varies tremendously across time and space? Standards of punishment change over time as do the standards of what is a criminal act. We don't burn people at the stake for heresy, we no longer hang people for having sex with barnyard animals, and we don't maim people for stealing bread. Justice is based on what society sees as appropriate, and is ever-evolving. It is time to put the death penalty behind us.

Peace.

 

To get the death penalty here you have to commit a murder with special circumstances. "Special" meaning, out of the ordinary, gruesome, etc. And with all the advancements in DNA, the 3% will drop by at least half. Look, I really wish I lived in a world where nobody committed murders and we didnt have to use the death penalty, but we dont. And by putting people in a cell and giving them a chance to escape or appeal or possibly get their conviction overturned and let them out to walk the streets and due it again. I, as a mother, would feel a whole lot safer if I knew that possiblity couldnt happen.
And thanks for you guys letting up on me a little

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Groove on

 

Stop that... unsupported speculation.

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Then perhaps you might focus on changing existing due process to eliminate those opportunities. Make "life" in prison mean exactly that: life in prison. But the appeals are important, especially to the innocents who have been wrongly convicted.

Peace.

 

Can Anyone please explain to me how the DP protects more than a Life sentence (without the possablity of parole)?

 

Oh Goofyfish I do actually hope that i could forgive the Murderer because that shows that I am a better person. It might take a while for me though (I would be Angered by the crime).

 

good question!

hahaha.
I would very much like to know the answer to that one as well.

 

1. The convict could excape.
2. The convict could get an appeal.
3. The convict could get his conviction overturned and be set free.
4. Usually a person who commits these types of crimes, has led a criminal life, and therefore is used to the system and probably has ties in prison making it easier to get "luxuries" like drugs and cigs.


What kind of punishment is this?


If the convict is dead, no more problem.


Groove on

 

Asguard

Why would I insult you asguard? You were the only one who stuck up for me earlier

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Any sarcasm or skeptism was directed to Merlijn and Chagur

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And I was also wondering, in the poll up above, its about 50/50, where is everyone else who shares my views?

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Groove on

 

As i have said before if there is a problem with the department of corections (this is what it is called in Australia anyway) then FIX IT don't use that as justification for MURDERING someone.

As for the Apeals and so forth a person has a RIGHT to them and they can't be MURDERED till they are finished anyway. If they are found to be Inocent of the crime in Apeal its a bit late after you have MURDERED them

 

"As i have said before if there is a problem with the department of corections (this is what it is called in Australia anyway) then FIX IT don't use that as justification for MURDERING someone."

Im not using the problems with our systems to justify the death penalty. I actually think the death penalty is a good idea. If people didnt commit murders, the death penalty wouldnt exist. Why cant anyone accept that? If a person KNOWS that he could get the death penalty for a committing a murder, why do they still do it? Its actually pretty simple, Dont kill and you wont face the death penalty. Simple.

Groove on

 

Can someone please post (or send me) a comparitive Levels of Murder comited (against population) for the USA vs Australia or England or Something (i cant find one)

I belive that you will find the US has the highest murderer rate. I mean why not every citerson (again i ask you to exsuse my spelling) is a murderer.

the dictonary definition of Murder: the Intentional killing of one human being by another.

As there isn't a killing more intentional than the DP i refuse to refer to it as anything other than MURDER from now on





Quote:"If a person KNOWS that he could get the death penalty for a committing a murder, why do they still do it?"

The anwer is simple. Death is an easy way out, and the other reason if someone is going to comit a crime they arn't thinking of the concequences. So Death is shown not to be a deterent.

 

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Will it be comparitive by population? Are you going to add england and australias population together. It might equal California, lol.

What if you found that crime in america was at a all time low.

 

I did ask for it compairing population and if its acurat i don't care what it shows

 

I am still digging for homicide per capita statistics, but in the U.S., it is apparent that crime is not likely to be at an all time low.

Number of persons in custody of State correctional authorities by most serious offense, 1980-1999

Year___ Violence___Property____Drug____Public Order
-----------------------------------------------------
1980___173,300____89,300____19,000____12,400
1981___193,300___100,500____21,700____14,600
1982___215,300___114,400____25,300____17,800
1983___214,600___127,100____26,600____24,400
1984___227,300___133,100____31,700____21,900
1985___246,200___140,100____38,900____23,000
1986___258,600___150,200____45,400____28,800
1987___271,300___155,500____57,900____31,300
1988___282,700___161,600____79,100____35,000
1989___293,900___172,700___120,100____39,500
1990___313,600___173,700___148,600____45,500
1991___339,500___180,700___155,200____49,500
1992___369,100___181,600___168,100____56,300
1993___393,500___189,600___177,000____64,000
1994___425,700___207,000___193,500____74,400
1995___459,600___226,600___212,800____86,500
1996___484,800___231,700___216,900____96,000
1997___507,800___236,400___222,100___106,200
1998___545,200___242,900___236,800___113,900
1999___570,000___245,000___251,200___120,600

Source: Department of Justice Web Pages

Violent offenses include murder, negligent and non-negligent manslaughter,
rape, sexual assault, robbery, assault, extortion, intimidation, criminal
endangerment, and other violent offenses.

Property offenses include burglary, larceny, motor vehicle theft,
fraud, possession and selling of stolen property, destruction of property,
trespassing, vandalism, criminal tampering, and other property offenses.

Drug offenses include possession, manufacturing, trafficking,
and other drug offenses.

Public-order offenses include weapons, drunk driving, escape/flight
to avoid prosecution, court offenses, obstruction, commercialized vice,
morals and decency charges, liquor law violations, and other
public-order offenses.

Peace.

 

I was hoping for a comparison between the US and a country without the DP

I will try to email the department of justice see if they can help me