Death to Apostates (?)

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by James R, Aug 2, 2008.

?

Death to apostates?

  1. I am Christian or Jewish. Apostates should be killed.

    1 vote(s)
    2.6%
  2. I am Christian or Jewish. Apostates should not be killed.

    7 vote(s)
    18.4%
  3. I am Muslim. Apostates should be killed.

    2 vote(s)
    5.3%
  4. I am Muslim. Apostates should not be killed.

    1 vote(s)
    2.6%
  5. I am a member of some other religion. Apostates from my religion should be killed.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. I am a member of some other religion. Apostates should not be killed.

    5 vote(s)
    13.2%
  7. I am non-religious. People who become religious should be killed.

    2 vote(s)
    5.3%
  8. I am non-religious. People who become religious should not be killed.

    18 vote(s)
    47.4%
  9. No opinion / don't want to vote / other (explained below)

    2 vote(s)
    5.3%
  1. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,834
    And you make up similar stupidities as you go along, which usually contradict another stupidity you made up yesterday.

    You don't conceal your beliefs.
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    So you would be happier if people concealed their stupid beliefs. Rather than expressed them out loud? Thats...interesting.
     
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  5. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,834
    Not nearly as happy as you making up silly, irrelevant conclusions.
     
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  7. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,432
    From what I understand, Hell, in Jewish view, is a separation from your people. Nothing more or less than that.
    I'll have to look deeper.
     
  8. JesseLeigh Registered Member

    Messages:
    97
    Evening Q!

    You said 'Unfortunately, you were indoctrinated into one of the very same organized religions that caused many of those atrocities resulting in the deaths of millions of people. And you sit here now, promoting it. And all you can offer is a single choice, eternal damnation.

    Surely, you can't be serious.'


    I'm not a member of any organized religion but rather simply a disciple of Christ. I abhor those atrocities as they never did have anything to do with God or Christ. Christ commanded us to *love* one another, not torture and murder one another.

    The Bible does not teach 'Eternal damnation.' As I have explained several times, hell is the common grave of all mankind and not some torture chamber. In Hebrew the word for hell is Sheol and in Greek it is Hades. The contention that Jews 'don't believe in hell' as some here appear to think is erroneous. They simply know the correct meaning of the word, as I've just explained it. What they *don't* believe in is a place of eternal torture and neither do I.

    The Bible does speak of an everlasting destruction in the 'Lake of Fire' and goes on to tell us that the 'Lake of Fire MEANS THE SECOND DEATH.' It's what happens to people who don't *wish* to live in God's Kingdom - they undergo a second death, an everlasting separation from God, and their state is oblivion since they simply cease to exist.

    It's worthy of note that when this judgment is handed down, none of us will possess physical bodies but spiritual ones. All the fear-inspiring, gruesome depictions of people with physical bodies suffering in a place of eternal torment are tools that organized religion uses to keep people in line, so to speak. They are *not* Biblical representations but human tools intended to control the masses.

    We are to revere God, certainly, but the Bible itself says 'Perfect love casts out fear' and 'God *is* Love.' Fear-based worship isn't worship at all. If allegiance isn't based on love then it means nothing.

    Regardless of the expression of one's faith, I believe that *all* actions (towards others) engaged in out of anything other than love mean nothing. YMMV - Jesse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2008
  9. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,865
    Surely you realize this is out of sync with Christ's teaching.

    "Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

    And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." -Matthew 18:8
     
  10. Adstar Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,782

    Your correction is no correction at all.

    My statement stands. We Christians where never called upon by Jesus to kill those who come to disbelieve Jesus.

    Yes God will bring upon them the second death in the lake of fire for their evil of rejecting the Messiah Jesus. But the original question was confined not to God himself but to the followers of the Messiah Jesus on earth.

    So my answer is Correct.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  11. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,865
    Sure, but what I corrected was your understanding of the word 'those'.

    "Those who come to disbelieve Jesus."

    Who are they?

    The Gospels teach that they were Jews, not gentiles. Jesus makes it clear that his message (that the kingdom is at hand) is ONLY for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Therefore, there is nothing for the gentiles to disbelieve.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2008
  12. Myles Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,553
    Of course you are correct. How could anybody doubt you.

    When you die are you hoping to become a stoker heaping coals on the Lake of Fire ? You can roast chestnuts; it's a perk that stokers get. They have a better flavour than manna. Just think of all those sinners writhing and crying out in agony as they enjoy god's mercy. Is the temperature of the fire measured in degress Celsius, Fahrenheit or Celestial ?
     
  13. Adstar Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,782
    Only at the time of the Message being given by Jesus was the message restricted to the Jews. But after when the message what complete Jesus called upon His followers to go out into the world so that all nations and people could be given the same message and the same opportunity to accept or reject it.

    So the limitation was only a temporary restriction.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  14. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,865
    No that was Paul the tent salesman from Tarsus.

    Jesus never said any such thing.
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,189
    It's an anonymous poll...

    The biggest indicator of a person's professed faith, if they have not changed their religious affiliation at some point, is the faith of their parents.

    I'm not sure if you're "born into" a faith. I think you're taught one as you grow up.

    Did Stalin kill 20 million people because they were religious?

    I don't think so.
     
  16. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,200
    I don't think apostasy should be punished, especially not with death.
    Not everyone is suited for a particular religious path. Maybe they go into it, and find that it's just not for them, and move onto a different one. I don't see that as a problem; it's just that person trying to find what religious path suits them. In Wicca, tolerance and relativity of other religions is emphasized as part of our ethics, and with this, comes the perspective that apostasy is...fine.
     
  17. Myles Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,553
    Wasn't that nice of god to change his mind and let all of us have the message! I shudder to think of what would happen to us ,if he had not changed his mind. " It's off to the Lake of Fire for you, my lad !"
     
  18. The Evelyonian Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    93


    Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


    Matthew 28:16-20 (NIV)
     
  19. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,342

    He was raised a Catholic. Let it go, you have utterly failed to blame atheism for anything.
     
  20. Adstar Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,782
    No it was the risen Jesus in Jerusalem

    Acts 1
    6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  21. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,087
    Well, you won't get one in the comments, anyway. Look at the one entry for the killing (judicial or extrajudicial, we'll never know) of apostates there. Is it a troll? Is it an actual response (from, say, Kadark or DiamondHearts)? Instinct suggests the latter but we'll really never know.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    And this is relevant because? I don't think it matters why, since he killed 20 million of them and holds the world record. Followed closely by Mao, Mussolini and Pol Pot. All atheists. Unless your argument is that its alright to kill people for non-religious reasons.

    So anyone who is raised Christian and becomes atheist is not an atheist? Only one who is born an athiest? Maybe has atheist parents?

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    Last edited: Aug 5, 2008
  23. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,342
    I said let it go, by pursuing it you look even more stupid, if my opinion of you could actually be much lower, that is.
     

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