Discussion: Death penalty

Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by James R, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    This thread is for discussion of the [thread=98661]Debate on the death penalty[/thread] between Syzygys and James R.

    The discussion is open to all members, but Syzygys and James R may not post in the discussion thread until the debate is finished.

    Links to related threads:

    [thread=98661]Debate thread[/thread]
    [thread=98589]Proposal thread[/thread]
     
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  3. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    You posted this in the wrong section, so I repost it here. Anyhow, anything legalized by definition is OK with the society.

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    After all you could call selling tobacco and alcohol as "legalized drugs".
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Syzygys: Please read post #1. Damn, now I've done it too.
     
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  7. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    The discussion isn't really going. In the maintime, for educational purposes I would post the story of the Briley brothers, who escaped from death row:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briley_Brothers#Escape

    "Linwood and J.B. Briley were the ringleaders in the six inmate escape from Virginia's death row at Mecklenburg Correctional Center on May 31, 1984. During the early moments of the escape, in which a coordinated effort resulted in inmates taking over the death row unit, both Brileys expressed strong interest in killing the officers that they had taken hostage. They went so far as to douse captive officers in lighter fluid and were prepared to toss in a lit match to complete the action. Willie Lloyd Turner, another death row inmate, stepped in the way of James Briley and forbade him from doing so. Meanwhile, cop killer Wilbert Lee Evans prevented Linwood Briley from raping a female nurse who had been taken hostage while en route to delivering medication to inmates in the unit. These events were featured on I.D. Channel in Escape from Death Row.

    Splitting off from their two remaining free escapees at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the Brileys went to live with their uncle in the north of the city. They were captured on June 19 by a heavily armed group of FBI agents and police. Returned to Virginia, few sought to plead for their lives to be spared."

    Also in 1998 in Texas:

    "Shortly after midnight on Nov. 27, seven men awaiting execution in Texas made a run for freedom from the Ellis Unit prison in Huntsville.

    Six were stopped by a hail of automatic rifle gunfire by tower guards. Officials say none were injured. But reporters and family members have been barred from seeing the men since their capture.

    The six are Gustavo Garcia, Henry Dunn, James Clayton, Howard Guidry, Eric Cathey and Ponchai Wilkerson.

    The seventh prisoner--Martin Gerule--made it over two 10-foot perimeter fences topped with razor wire. He has since eluded over 500 law-enforcement officers, dog teams and helicopters."

    ..and the treatment what imprisonment provides:

    "Texas prisons are hell-holes. In 1980, a federal judge declared Texas prisons unconstitutional because of rampant brutality, lack of health care, overcrowding and denial of access to the courts."

    I just included this here, because I was asked about proving DP less suffering than prison.

    P.S.: This dude passed 4 jail employees with a fake ID, again on death row:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9922969/
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
  8. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    My opinion is simple, never give the government the power to kill it's own citizens.
     
  9. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    We don't 'give' the government this power; it has it. The government doesn't need our permission to do something. That's lesson number one!
     
  10. mugaliens Registered Member

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    While they do not require individual permission, in representative governments such as the US, they most certainly require collective permission. It is for this reason that capital punishment has been used by nearly all societies, including throughout the US, but in recent decades most legislatures passed laws against it.

    Put simply, the people said "no."

    Given the sizeable number of convictions overturned on the basis of DNA and other evidence, I'm inclined to agree with a curtailment until we come up with a far more accurate justice system than the one we have.
     
  11. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    Well in Canada "we" took it away. Why don't you try to startup yer dick-tator-ship, so the rest of us can have fun sinking it?
     
  12. mugaliens Registered Member

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    Ooops... I finally read the first thread, and have since joined the debate elsewhere.

    - Mugs
     
  13. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    1. This is an opinion, not an argument.
    2. So giving the government the power to imprison for life is OK?

    By the way this thread should be more about the debate, and I wouldn't mind to hear a little feedback on how we are doing so far...
     
  14. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    James, I can't decide if you deliberately missunderstanding my points or just this is your very best. Either way it is bad.
    Also I don't get what the difference for me responding to your summary of the website or debating the website itself? Remember, originally I wanted the later, but since you voluntered, I figured it is easier to deal with your summary. I don't see any differences between the 2 approaches. So stop complaining about it. If it makes you happy and when I have the time I can go through the whole website and post a line by line refutal in a separate forum. I am going to have fun with that... Probably under freethoughts to avoid certain moderators...
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Syzygys:

    You can put all of that in the debate if you want. Bear in mind that I'm not writing my debate posts only for your benefit but for the benefit of people reading the debate and trying to decide who "won" (or rather, who made the best arguments).

    Why don't you post your rebuttal in the Debate thread? You hardly need another thread for it.

    By the way, we originally agreed to 4 posts each for the debate. Do you want to extend to more posts, or is 4 enough? (You've had 3 already.)
     
  16. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    I can post it in the debate thread, but it is a bit late because I bet I already covered at least 80% of it, so it would be just repetition of what I have already said.
    I don't have a problem with the number of posts, I guess it is over when we just start to repeat ourselves, which is very soon.(1-2 more posts)
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    If you think you've covered everything, there's no need to repeat yourself. I claim in the debate that you haven't. People reading it can judge for themselves.
     
  18. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    In the formal debate, James R has a massive lead in both style and substance. It's hardly a fair match.
     
  19. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    I have just taken a quick look at this website:

    http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?list=type&type=24

    and we have already covered all 10 reasons.

    The 2nd website

    http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/a...a2-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/act500102007en.html

    is incredibly bad. It is a hodge-podge of emotional arguments and laughable statements. it isn't very well organized like a list of arguments or something what I could go through point by point. Still reading it if I find something extra...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  20. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you. Oh, that's not what you said? I hope your opinion is not effected by our little history. Honestly I forgot what our little quarrel was about and I don't really care, but I would hope that everyone bases his/her opinion on what was said and not on the personality of the debater.

    I know, one can only hope....
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Well, if you've covered everything, post your summing-up. Then I'll post my last post and we're done.
     
  22. deicider got omnicidead Registered Senior Member

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    "In the formal debate, James R has a massive lead in both style and substance. It's hardly a fair match. "
    Ofc he has,cause his opponent is someone like syzygys.
    /debate
     
  23. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting how idiots from my ignore list are coming out, who would have thought?

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    Well, let's make it interesting. Post the argument* that I haven't dealt/refuted and for every WRONGLY posted argument, you guys stay away from the Forum for 6 months. Go....

    *That would prove 2 things:

    1. You actually read the debate.
    2. You have something to back up your opinion.
     

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