Dawkins defends comments about "Alien Designers".

But...but...but.. he's arguing for freedom of enquiry <sound of bugles>

 

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Quite.

Give to Science what is Science's and to God what is God's.

 

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I'm divided on the issue that Ben Stein is bringing up because of the rising discrimination against theists in science in terms of tenure, funding and publication, regardless of merit.

 

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Examples of this upwards trend?

 

Ask any theist in science. :shrug:

edit: deleted the quote on Gonzales after reading this

http://www.expelledexposed.com/index.php/the-truth/gonzalez

 

Ah yes. The Gonzalez fellow. I too found, on looking him up, that his case isn't as clear-cut as your quote implied. He's a bit rubbish, apparently, but also deeply enmeshed within the ID movement (and it is a movement, isn't it, with a clearly-defined agenda). For instance, he's a Senior Fellow here and contributes to a magazine published by him. In other words he's a fairly controversial figure and one can't entirely blame the ISU for seeking less risky alternatives.

But, looking at it in more general terms: the problem is that the whole issue has become such a hot potato that it's very difficult to seperate the science from the politics. Films like Expelled just add more fuel to the flames and are hardly likely to make things easier for theist scientists who just want to get on with their jobs. Make an issue of it and any scientific considerations get buried in the political fallout. I do accept that the science establishment seems unwilling to even entertain the notion of an intelligent designer but I think that, again, is a consequence of powerful lobby groups forcing the agenda. It seems to me that the theistically-inclined would do well to leave the whole area alone, keep the faith, and hope for a time when these things can be discussed in a less hysterical atmosphere.

Then play smart and don't express it until you've made yourself indispensable. :shrug: If a paedophile goes for a job at a school he's hardly likely to get it if he waxes lyrical about the joy of bumming small boys. That might get him a job in the Catholic Church - in fact, he'll probably find himself being rapidly promoted to a senior position - but it's the kind of thing that a more respectable establishment just might frown on! The parallels with those of a theistic bent entering the halls of scientific institutions are clear, the lessons waiting to be drawn.

(ok, ok, fine.

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Try this, then. There are laws against religious discrimination. I can only heartily recommend that anyone so discriminated against should get on the big white telephone and call in the Big Fella's legal team. ok!??)

 

Since of course, atheists are paragons of the scientific method and promoting godlessness is devoid of the perils of belief.

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Ah, I see you got hung up on the bumming minors thing there. Bad example?

There are issues that need addressing here. There are unresolved conflicts. I have no idea what the solution is. Maybe you do?

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Mostly that it has to go clearly and probably horrifically downhill before enough people will pay attention to it. Meanwhile, nutjobs on either end of the spectrum are having a field day.

 

Well just look at this sentence:

"Organized complexity cannot just spontaneously happen."

That was a slip, well i think that guy Darkins said it but they seem (what are they called?Evolutionists) to leave that part out on their blogs. And thank god for blogs, where would we be without those? yawn. Either way, that is really what it all boils down to and that stick in their side like a thorn.

Honestly, Darkins doesnt really impress me. I do like Ben Stein though, because he is funny and he was in Ferris Bueller. I went to his site Darkinsses site and it just like these angry peoplle telling me what to believe, when they dont even know themselves. Just 'believe this, or we will chop your fucking head of' well they wont chop it off literraly but who know they might if given the opportunity and if they could get away with it.

And the movie, looks interesting. People making money all around- on both sides, at least Ben is not trying to control my mind. Because that cannot be done.

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Whatever happened to the desire for privacy? Once upon a time people went to work to do a job. Politics, religion, the size of one's underpants..... were not relevant to the tasks at hand and therefore kept out of the workplace. One's beliefs, on religion, politics, the size of someone else's underpants were kept to oneself and that state of affairs would be encouraged.

oh, oh oh those glory days

 

Somebody left the closets open. (You forgot sexual preferences)

 

yeah, i coudnt imagine what they would do to gene roddenberry these days.

 

What rising discrimination? Every instance of "Discrimination" so far raised is down to the incompetence of the Creationist involved.
You would be better off looking at what happens to those who question Creationism. Several school teachers have been fired. Someone was even murdered for arguing with a Creationist. (The alcohol wouldn't have helped)

As fro Gonzales, he was, IIRC, incompetent. He had a good record, then blew it when he started spending too much time on ID rubbish. So the tenure committee rightly denied him it, given that his output in the last few years was poor.

 

Like I said the nutjobs of either end of the spectrum have a field day

 

Dawkins failed to mention that it is assumed but not proven that "Organized complexity cannot just spontaneously happen" Life or a god could have formed via many spontanously (but weird) scenario, I can think of two off hand.

1. Chance: if the universe if infinite then even the most improbably thing will happen, for example a 747 forming out of random atoms, or the spontaneous creation of life. The only way to test this is to survey, unfortantly we do not yet have the technology to survey the whole galaxy, other galaxies, and relies that our existence is a one of a kind fluke.

2. The "I'm my own grandfather paradox" consider it the opposite of the "Grandfather paradox" (thank you Phillip J. Fry) in which through time-travel you spawn your self, likewise life on earth could have been created through a temporal paradox, which means life created its self out of nothing.

 

What's your complaint about that statement?

 

From the link YOU provided:

"However, this shows a naïve and distorted understanding of the tenure process at a major research university. The tenure process involves intense scrutiny of a candidate’s accomplishments in order to assess his future potential; the beliefs or extra-academic opinions held by the candidate are not a factor."

Making up lies again, Sam?

 

:roflmao:

Yeah clearly you know a great deal about the tenure process.

 

And you're arguing from ignorance. Since you don't know that stupid stuff like collegiality has been sufficient grounds to deny tenure. Collegiality is just another word for "I don't like her or him". Norman Finkelstein was denied tenure inspite of an overwhelming recommendation based on his credentials.

Why don't you get a clue? The tenure process is not all sunshine and roses.