Data of human time line..

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by R1D2, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. R1D2 many leagues under the sea. Valued Senior Member

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    I'd like to start a discussion on human time line.
    First off
    Sumer is the earliest known civilization in the historical region of southern Mesopotamia, modern-day southern Iraq, during the Chalcolithic and Early Bronze ages, and arguably the first civilization ...Wikipedia

    Period:Late Neolithic - Middle Bronze Age
    Dates:c. 4500 – c. 1900 BC
    Humans are said to go back to about 200,000 years old

    Then a story I read said
    Early Humans Lived 300,000 Years Ago—But Had Modern Faces
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay....occo-early-human-fossils-anthropology-science

    I'm unsure about human ancestry it seems unclear. I'm a Christian and I see evidence of several civilization story's saying there was a flood, did this have something going to do with confounding the confusion on the ancient human time line?
    How far back does humanity really go?
    Is ancient Sumer the oldest known confirmed civilization? Is there any chance of one older? The Piri Reis map shows the western coast of Africa, the eastern coast of South America, and the northern coast of Antarctica. The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed, with no ice. Could the map suggest something more ancient than sumer knowing more of the world? How much do modern man and science know for sure?
     
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  3. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Of course the age could always go back a little more. It just depends on what fossils are found. No need to focus on a (Biblical?) flood. Also, I doubt there is much to discuss.
     
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  7. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    That article is likely correct. Evidence for true humans shows they lived as far back as circa 350 kya to 500 kya, when they diverged from neandrthals, with whom they were still compatible many hundreds of thousands of years post divergence, when more modern humans entered neanderthal territories.

    We have virtually no artifacts from then, however, other than these few finds. There is extensive evidence of a change in humanity with the rising of the sea-level the last time circa 18 to 12 kya, when people moved to higher elevations and started 'historical human accounts' circa 7 kya.
     
  8. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    There's one civilization in South America that was dated at 7 kya, IIRC. To me the interesting thing about that city was that there was no walls, no defensive works.
     
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  9. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    An interesting subject.

    That was the first known civilization that possessed some form of writing (early cuneiform in their case). We still have some of their records and know something (not a great deal) of their history.

    There was a long and hugely interesting period prior to that called the 'neolithic' (the 'new stone age') that didn't possess writing (and hence was 'prehistoric'). These weren't stereotypical 'cavemen', though. The neolithic extends back to at least 7,000 BCE and perhaps thousands of years earlier in some places, closer to the end of the last ice age.

    It was a revolutionary period in human life. Many of them lived in settled villages, some quite large (several thousand inhabitants). In the dry Middle East these closely resembled the Indian pueblos in the American southwest. In Europe, they were thatched roof wooden villages. What defines the 'neolithic' was possession of agriculture and domestic animals (apart from dogs, which seem to have been with humans longer). These were garden-farming communities, not large scale commercial agriculture, farmed with hoes not plows. Pastoral nomadism dates from the same period. (Pastoral nomadism seems primitive, but it depends on domesticated animals.)

    Although they didn't have writing, these weren't simple people. The neolithic is defined by possession of agriculture and many of the farm crops familiar today originated in this time. In the Middle East (where their settlements are better preserved than the European wooden villages) their settlements sometimes had multiple stories with interior stairways, whitewashed interior walls with painted decorations, and furniture. They tended to be located in small valleys in hilly areas, where creeks and streams had water all year. Remains of their villages are found in what is now Turkey and Iran, not Iraq and Mesopotamia. Settlement of the desert flatlands required large-scale irrigation projects and the appearance of larger cities. (Enter the Sumerians.)

    The neolithic invented textiles (a revolutionary development) and fired ceramics. They even experimented with copper metallurgy (mostly used for jewelry). There's increasing evidence of long distance trade among these groups, since groups are found to have used materials (amber, particular kinds of stone or whatever) only obtainable many hundreds of kilometers away. ('Otzi', the late-neolithic Ice-man, was murdered while crossing the Alps.) Their main materials were still stone and wood. They no doubt had elaborate intellectual lives, probably passed on by bards, poets and professional story-tellers, and probably organized into little loosely organized kingdoms, though as there was no writing, we have no record of the details. Much of the world still had this style of life when the Europeans arrived. These populations provide evidence that societies like this can have very elaborate traditions of art, myth and dance.

    http://www.iceman.it/en/the-iceman/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ötzi

    The exceedingly long period that came before this is usually lumped together as the paleolithic period, the 'old stone age'. The 'paleolithic' is typified by hunter-gatherer ways of life. This period dates back from maybe 10,000 BCE all the way to the early hominids and the little known origins of human beings. (So there isn't really a fixed date for the beginning of the paleolithic, but it predates the appearance of anatomically modern humans and probably extends back millions of years.) Paleolithic ways of life survived until recently among a few relic populations such as the Australian aborigines.

    Historians and anthropologists usually distinguish between vaguely defined early and late paleolithic cultures. The late paleolithic (the last few tens of thousands of years) seems to have domesticated dogs, possessed bows and arrows and spear-throwers (they could take down mammoths), had art of a sort (cave paintings and small carved figurines) and probably huts and technologies to prepare skins and furs as garments. Most of their technology was probably in wood (biodegradable) and hasn't survived, so they may have been more sophisticated than we think. (Imagine hunter-gatherer cultures in more recent times.) It's probable that they had story-tellers, shamans, rituals and elaborate traditions of myth that they told around their campfires.

    The earlier portion of the old stone age gets us closer to the origins of man. It includes things like Homo erectus as well as early modern humans. There were likely multiple varieties of human alive at the same time in those earlier years. Neanderthals were seemingly the last surviving alt.humans, though there's recent evidence of others surviving until comparatively late in parts of Asia. (There are even speculations that some might still survive today in remote areas, 'bigfoot' and 'yeti' sightings continue.) The early paleolithic populations probably had spears and axes. They were capable of traveling long distances and populated all of Eurasia. This is probably when human language appeared in all of its complexity, and our modern human powers of conceptualization along with it. There are indications that religious ideas may have originated in the very early period. Some of these groups (including Homo erectus) occasionally collected human skulls for some reason and Neanderthals seem to have sometimes engaged in burial rituals.) These very early populations had tamed fire and had the ability to cook their food.

    Anatomically modern humans. Other varieties (the alt.humans, technically referred to as 'hominins') are much older. Homo erectus dates back to as early as 1.9 million years ago.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  10. R1D2 many leagues under the sea. Valued Senior Member

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    Very informative yazata, thanks.
    Sama I don't think I've heard of that thanks.
    There is a lot of older stories from multiple sources that talk about a flood so maybe a older civilization was "deleted"..
     
  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    It's all about the "flood", right?
     
  12. R1D2 many leagues under the sea. Valued Senior Member

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    Seattle, not necessarily No. I made the comment about the flood as a possible to a bit of information being "deleted". Several historical civilizations mention a flood on a world scale that is easy to find searching online. Not saying one way or another it's a key. The prior civilizations don't mention a past "city". I was trying to find the oldest civilizations, and get some data on the human time line, it seems murky. .
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Science informs us that the account of creation set out in the bible is incorrect and there was no flood as described in the bible.

    Even without science one must question the event simply as to where did all this flood water come from and where did it go.

    Science informs us that humans evolved from an earlier species and that man was not initially made by a God out of clay nor was the female made by said God using a rib from man.

    The account of the flood is a myth and if you look for civilizations that have disappeared probably best to consider the role of war or lack of water rather than too much water such as flooding.

    It must be difficult to accept the bible could be wrong but unfortunately the evidence strongly suggests that it is wrong as to creation and a flood.

    These myths were made up by ancient folk and one must wonder why anyone would regard their explainations as informed or reliable but as some believe their claims that they were inspired by God their nonsense treated as reliable by some ignorant of what science can reliably tell us.

    Alex
     
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Floods are not new and of course stories of floods will be common.
    But accounts are of local flooding as no human could determine events beyond their immediate locality and their immediate locality was their whole world.
    Alex
     
  15. R1D2 many leagues under the sea. Valued Senior Member

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    Alex I agree to an extent, I try being "scientific" & biblical. I am not arguing and I understand some written is unaccurate. You have a point about the flooding, but in either way waters have risen, an towns have been lost, or forgotten. . .
    Man may have been 200 or 300 thousands old. Where did man "start" what was there first accepted citys, town?
     
  16. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Remember, this is pre-cable, pre-internet. You know, people sitting around and bullshitting. Tall tales are mostly lies, and good stories are stolen with a will.
     
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I would support that approach.
    I spent time reading about Jesus death and relation ship to a lunar eclipse.
    Also I like looking at how there seems history that humans personified the Sun to construct their religion.
    I like thinking about the philosophy of science and why many folk dont take time to read up on the subject.
    Who really can answer that one?
    I find the study of all the universe interesting and considering evolement of so many things will be never ending.
    Cities would evolve from towns from villages from at one point nomadic folk who found good fruit trees game and fish. We could get semi permanent structures and the concept of prime real estate is born.

    One can speculate so long as one remembers where we leave the road of reliable knowledge.
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    I would postulate that monumental stone architecture is indicative if an advanced civilization. Which (gobekli tepe) would then push advanced civilization back into the paleolithic.
    Speculating that an advanced civilization pre-existed gobekli tepe, would then place that civilization back into the glacial period. The melting of the ice then could well be a source material for the flood stories.

    One wonders what archaeological treasures sleep beneath the waves.
     
  19. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    IF advanced civilization
    THEN GOTO revised history
    ELSE GOTO END
    END
     
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    oops
    of,
    not if
    typo
     
  21. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Just having a giggle. I'm famous for such sentences as "The US military are a bunch of drunks with guns." Can't work that "n't" in there unless I'm watching like a hawk.
     
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Humans had boats capable of crossing open ocean long before they had stone buildings. The earliest manufactured human technology, something made "from scratch" rather than by modifying an existing object, was probably made of string or braided line - a carry bag closure or harness of some kind, a lashing for a shelter or clothing, say. The first tools were probably for digging, prying, gathering, and processing, not combat or hunting. The first weapons were probably for fish and the like, nets and snares almost certainly predate manufactured projectiles. The sling predates the bow and arrow, and probably the throwing stick. The boomerang is more sophisticated than the wheel. The kayak was probably the most sophisticated and capable watercraft in the world when it was first described by European adventurers - the primary skill set in building one was sewing, butchering, and waterproofing, and it was used to hunt whales.

    If one draws a timeline of humanity, the last 50,000 years are a record of people as intelligent and capable as anyone on the planet today. Their skill set, the depth of their intelligence and sophistication, was reflected most dramatically and significantly in their domestic arts - cooking, sewing, doctoring, building shelter, making tools and gear, cooperating in complex endeavors. Making and breaking camp on journeys of hundreds of miles, with the babies and grandparents coming along with everybody else.
     
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    20,000 years ago sea levels were 120 mts below present levels.
    I wonder if you could search where rivers would have met the sea at that time what we may find.
    Most humans may have gone under at least technology would be set back.

    If sea level rose now 100 meters the current world would disappear save a few hill billies starting over.
    We would go primative again no doubt.
    Alex
     

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