Danish Cartoons: Inciting Hatred or Freedom of Speech

Well ask the Muslims living here, they are being treated like our brothers... I personally have many Muslim friends who themselves are very satisfied & proud to be Indians... Its just some freaks like you who have to deliberately create such images of Muslim inequality in other countries just to cover up for the terrorism you people are spreading around the world... And for your kind information there is no "desecration" of mosques as such here... remember we are the biggest democracy in the world!

Being a majority population in a certain area doesn't mean that you have to seperate from the country... Isn't this communalism? And whoever told you that Muslims in India aren't allowed to practice their religion freely? In fact Hindus in your country are being treated as third class citizens.. What do you have to say on that?

Why do you mention only the killing of Muslims? Go & research some more & you will be astonished that a same number of people from other religions were killed? The fact that you're highlighting only the Muslim populations proves just enough that you're indeed a narrow minded person who keeps interest only in peoplr belonging from your religion & considering others as infidels which your religion rightly states... No doubt we can see the world debating against your religious teachings!

You are highly mistaken my dear... No Kashmiri would like to join Pakistan. Please clear your knowledge & then make blatant replies!

Well first things first, I'm an Indian & proud to be Indian.. And besides calling myself Yank doesn't mean I have converted unlike your religion which follows the same practice... Our religion is much more civilised than yours... which can be seen from the fact that we do not encourage communalism!

Your statements prove well enough how much do you respect Indians ... forget Indians your words themselves show how much you disrespect other religions...

 

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I suggest and have always been for a UN plebescite of Kashmir. Let the people of Kashmir decide. Also, I believe an independence country is unrealistic because Kashmir is not strong enough to survive as an independent nation, and its people are not capable to sustain themsevles. If Kashmir does become independent (which is highly unlikely) then Western countries will take advantage of it and establish bases there, like for example is evident in Kuwait which is America's little base in Middle East. I support a peaceful resolution of this issue, war will only hurt the great people of kashmir.

Pakistan's president may be a military dictator, yet he will respect the soveriengty and rights of Kashmir like he does the other regions of Pakistan. We are against his bowing to the west (like Afghanistan war, etc.), however his economic policies are very good and has done alot for the country. The President is currently the most moderate and willing to yield of all the presidents of Pakistan in our history of civilian and military rulers.

India is a facade democracy, like most 'democracies' (by that i mean a republic because a democracy does not exist) in the world and is controlled by lobby groups with power and selective coalitions.

I would rather judge governments by the actions of their officials, rather than the suppossed idealism which they say. Lying is very common in today's world, almost all countries proclaim themselves to be free and of the people, no matter how against the people and freedom of others they may be.

Also, even if you dont agree with me, I'm glad you shared your views and care for Kashmiri people because they are our blood and families and we love them very much. Thank you.

Peace.

 

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First things first - Kashmiris don't & would never wanna be a part of Pakistan. Please stop cooking up unrealistic statements just to prove your point which is rightly WRONG! And stop blaming the West for unneccessary reasons... first look into the matters what your people around the world are upto!

I would never show disrespect for your President... after all which president would want his country to suffer? But I think you & your people shoudl start showing some respect to the West... Because they are not fighting against you they are fighting against terrorism!

You have many misconceptions regarding Indian democracy... Please get back to me after proper research on the topic!

You are very right when you say "Lying is very common in today's world" and that is what you people have been upto... Trying to take advantage of the fact that Muslims are treated as normal civilains in any country they live in... Yet you would want them to be treated as superior which is a really bad idea!
Nations all around the world look at people first as humans unlike your order which relies highly on religious stands!

I highly disagree with your views... you're right & you're right again - I first consider the person I interact with as a fellow human being... never ask what religion they belong too... it only creates a distance!

 

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I am far from an expert on Indian politics and can agree that there is strong probably that most nations, democratic or not, will be controlled by the people with wealth (and power, but that is getting to be a circular statement as control = power).

I think this is perhaps as true of the US as of India, if not more so. (Our two parties both spread across the economic spectrum and there really is more difference in the Indian parties, I think.) I say this for the same "investment reasons" that I am interested in India (and thus in Pakistan, Kashmir). - Namely I hold several Indian ADRs and have for several years. Thus, I and almost everyone else was very surprised by the last election in India. - The more left party won (Congress Party? or is that the one that got defeated?)

Just like in Brazil 5 years ago, when the worker's party won capital began to flee India, but PM Sing is western trained, intelligent, and understands economics, so India is doing well and my ADRs quickly recovered from their brief setback and now many have more than doubled.

My point being that I must disagree with you - India is about as democratic as they come, US included. The people vote and they have real choices, not like in Pakistan, or many other countries with one party systems and no real choice.

 

You really need to get a proper education, reading the koran 16 hours a day at a madrass in pakistan, will never further your mind, & for the other 8 hours of the day do you recite it in your sleep.


"then Western countries will take advantage of it and establish bases there, like for example is evident in Kuwait which is America's little base in Middle East."


Western countries will establish bases in india or pakistan?
What planet are you on?
Has oil been found there?
Kuwait has oil, pakistan offers nothing but grief & bombs to any western army, and for what reason would they go there for?

To help the local pakis, look after there goats?
To help bring paki tribal leaders into the real world, & drag them out of the fantasy world of the dark ages they live in?

The brits went to india, along time ago, because our snobs in the uk, the upper classes wanted to be waited on hand & foot, and have pakis fan them with ostrich feathers, those days are gone diamond.

Our snobs in the uk have to fan themselves these days, i am afraid you are living in a islamic militant propaganda world, where america & the west is after all muslim land.

America with all its power has never occupied a country, they could have invaded most of the world after world war 2, with there nukes did they?

The reason they are based in kuwait is because, sadaam your friend liked to invade kuwait, & know doubt iran would too.

The reason there still in iraq, is because your insurgent paki friends are bogging down the US & UK troops, hoping to prolong the war forever, thus giving sadaam your hero, the bullshit he needs to say the west wants to go on a crusade again.

If we did go on a crusade again, it would be over in a week, such is the might of your muslim armies, they seem more comfortable shooting from under womens burkas than fighting man to man.

Israel has defeated your inept muslim forces loads of times, thats just a mickey mouse army, imagine what the west would do to you, for all your oil & hi tech planes, you muslim guys will never have the expertise to win wars.

Thats why there is hundreds of thousand of expats in muslim countries, you spend so much time reading the koran, you need us to show you how to flick a channel with a tv remote box.

Diamond get you head out of the koran, its killing you, and all your people, but you just can not see it.

 

You seem to be a Brit. Perhaps you can confirm or correct something of no importance for me:

I believe that "SOB" was not originally a disparaging comment and that the word "snob" may be a mutated form of SOB (with n added). That is, it was was three letters written on the many steamer trunks of the well to do and frequent travelers to India back in England's days as the world's major power.

The "SOB" on the trunk standing for "Southside Out- Bound." I.e. when leaving cloudy, cold, England in winter and wanting some sun, the knowledgeable, and often late rising, traveler wanted to be on the south (or really, as I look at it, more the west side of the boat, until it rounded the tip of Aftica and then, it being summer in tht hemisphere, it was desirable to be on the side away from the sun.)

That only later did SOB come to stand for someone general "stuck up" and disagreable, hard to please, etc. or what we today mean by "a snob."

Any truth to this?

 

I believe in the islamic theology, and by reading and understanding the Quran, this shows my devotion to Allah swt.

I'd rather be herding goats than invading other nations on the other side of the world. Justice will catch up with the aggressors.

Who is in Afghanistan and Iraq, who is planning to invade iran?

Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Nicaragua, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Phillipines, Kuwait, Somalia, and recently Afghanistan and Iraq, to name a few.

Kuwait was a former province of Iraq. Also, Iran doesn't care for controlling Kuwait.

Paki is a racist word and only proves my point that you are a racist every time you use it. You have any proof to show Pakistani insurgents in iraq. What a ridiculous charge.

Insurgents is an incorrect word for freedom fighters and revolutionaries who are fighting the occupiers from the US and UK.

Saddam was a horrible person, however even his injustices are small compared to the vast amount of chaos and brutality of the Americans in Iraq.

This is why America carpet bombed Iraq and Afghanistan before going in?

Israel was funded and fully supported by the West in their war against the Arab nations, and they were betrayed by Jordan and had sanctions put on them by the West draining their rescources.

The Quran is the word of Allah swt and a mercy for all the world, it is the ultimate message of truth which inspires our strength in the Muslim world. The Quran is a guidance and a stength for the believers. Muslims are a tough people, and we will never give up as long as their are foreigners in our lands trying to control us. As long as we have the Quran, Allah swt, and the words of our noble prophet and greatest leader holy Prophet Muhammad paak (s) we shall never be conquered, Islam lives whether you like it or not. Islam breathes life into the downtrodden and abused Muslims, after two centuries of abuse we will rise. Insha Allah.

Peace.

 

What I've done here is just highlighted some of the false claims of your religion!

 

We have been having our own little cartoon contest in South East Asia. Australia and Indonesia that is.



We returned fire in color.

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You have a way of picking inane words & wanting to start a conversation on them, may i suggest you join the real world, and climb out of the,
Edvard Munch scream portrait you seem to be living in.

 

Billy T, your thinking of POSH, Port Outbound, Starbord Home, wich is the shady side of the ship traveling to India, SOB means Son of a Bitch, and yes in is ment to be a insult.

 

freedom of speach??? lop off with their heads i say.

 

This shows the basic problem with the Arab world- they dont know what they are talking about.

Hawaii: Hawaii was annexed in 1893. You can hardly call a single naval ship an "occupying force". Hawaii was an internal rebellion. Granted the U.S. took the side of the rebels. Still not an occupation.

Puerto Rico, Phillipines: Were both a spoil of the Spanish-American war that ended in 1898. The US paid $20,000,000 to Spain for rights to Guam, Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Phillipines.

Nicaragua: Huh??? Maybe you mean Panama??

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Korea: We didnt start the Korean war. We have 36,000 troops there on the border but they are only there to prevent the North from invading once again.

Japan: LOL Ok, yeah we did occupy Japan. This was after WWII, hello! You should have added Germany for good measure. But if you did that you would have to add Russia, Britain, and France ass 'occupiers". Look at Japan today! A wonderfull country and ally. Lets not forget that they also started that war.

Vietnam: We were asked to be there by the South becuase the communists were taking over their country. Hardly occupying.

Somalia: Good lord, it was in support of an UN Peace Mission! No fears, good
ol Clinton left after some Rangers died. Look at Somalia- it is a raging war torn dump. We should have stayed. Hardly an occupation.

Kuwait: Are you retarded?? SADDAM tried to take it over! We kick him out and the Kuwaities love us for it.

Iraq: If the people of Iraq would stop killing each other (and Iran would leave them alone) then we would have left YEARS ago! Do you think we want to be there?? :bugeye:

Afghanistan: Ohh yeah! The good ol' Taliban! There was a bunch of winners! Im sure your average Afghani is really upset that those wackos are gone

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Maybe if the Koran tought U.S. History you would have a clue.

 

mainly true, I believe. But also believe that US provoked, supplied, etc. that revolution as time of war with Spain was a good time to steal that Spanish island (I seem to recall, that because of communication delays, the taking of Hawaii actually was done after the Spanish/ American peace treaty had already been signed.) Perhaps I am confusing Hawaii with the Phillipines? In any case, only one gun boat was required as island was too far from Spain for Spanish to do anything. I also believe this is the origin of the expression "gun boat diplomancy" = Idea you can get what you want just by showing power, perhaps one or two shells from a gun boat, but of course now we would send a Tomahak missile to a well-chosen inland target (Perhaps the new oil stock exchange soon to be selling oil for Euros?) in Iran if "need" be. (I believe GBW is stupid enough to do this. Correct idea is to ONLY show the gun boat, but than may not work as China needs Iran's oil and China can break the dollar/ US economy etc..)

China and N. Vietnam have just signed an agreement giving China the right to develop the oil in what S.V. and US call the "Tompkin Gulf." Many "oil geologists" think the field there may be larger than Saudi Arabia's but it will be somewhat more costly to extract oil from the sea floor.
I think that had it been possible, the US would have "brought democracy" to N. V. by occupation, and very possibly cost of gas In US could be less than $2/gal for a few years more.

Do you not find it strange that the current US Secretary of State, a PhD, professor, a black woman, is ignoring the fact that ARIBS of the Sudan government have already killed millions of poor blacks in Darfor state of Sudan, where there is no oil? (So many defenseless black have been killed that the US has officially declared it is "genocide" in progress.) Yet the US Congressional Budget Office report, just released, states that the cost of the Iraq war has already exceeded that of the Vietnam War, whereas the US, at 1/100 the cost of Iraq, could at least split off Darfor as a Black state and see that the food rations (just reduced to 1050 calories /day - half what is needed to sustain health) were increased?

Whoops, sorry. - Vietnam "Conflict" (America never losses a war and fact that Iraq has oil, Tomkin Gulf probably has lots of oil, and Darfor does not, has nothing to do with where US is willing to "bring democracy.")

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No to first & Yes to second, but you seem to be unaware (just "ignorant", not "retarded"

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) of fact that the original boundaries* of Iraq included the Iraqi state of Kuwait. When so much oil was discovered in that original Iraq, the British foreign office (who set up the boundaries of almost all the Mid East states) decided it was not wise for one nation to have so much oil under its control and then made Kuwait a nation, no longer to be a state of Iraq.

I will not give any praise to Sadam, but he was trying to do EXACTLY what Lincoln did do in the US civil war - reunifiy his nation after part was split off by the English. (The US south was also split off by England. They wanted their textile mills to get the southern cotton and have the south buy the finished cloth they produced. - This in direct conflict with the north, especially the NE where US water powered textile mills wanted the same arrangement with the south - a cotton for cloth trade. "Anti-Slavery" was just the best way to get ignorant farm boys to died for the New England mill owners - Same as Iraq's WMDs and "Iraq caused 9/11" and Iraq is center of "War on Terror" is much more effective way to get current ignorant city boys willing to die for the oil barrons.**) War is very rarely about anything noble (how could killing be?) - It is usually about putting more money in the hands of the already rich and powerful.

Well, now that you asked, YES, at least until the oil runs out. If you think other wise, please tell me why Connie Rice is helping US set up "democratic government" in IRAQ instead of in DAFOR? - I can answer this question using only three letters - bet you can guess what they are (Hint: two are vowels) but I would really like to hear what your answer would be if it is different.

PS - Just curious - 151 is brand of cheap "vodka" made from cane sugar here in Brazil. Is it sold where you live? (Assuming you do not live in Brazil as I do.) I know Brazil exports fuel alcohol in tankers, more every year, but did not know it exported it in quart bottles also.
-------------------------------------------------
* The British Foreign Office, BFO, is also responsible for most of the problems US is having in setting up a government in Iraq. When Iraq's boundaries were being drawn up in London, the BFO thought it would be good to include three different cultures they could play off, each one against the other two, to make control of Iraq more easy. Kuwait's land was made part of Iraq, not Saudi Arabia, initially as Saudi Arabi was too big already and with its contrlo of Meca, already had too much influence from the BFO's POV. At time, eveyone thought that land was just a worthless sand expanse and if given to Iraq, then Iraq would have some more ports, instead the narrow connection to the gulf it now has, and that would help BFO to exploit Iraq.
**In case you ask: "Who are they?" "What century are you living in?" etc. I will admit I am one. - I have owned shaires in PetroBras for about 5 years - now showing approximatley 700% profit. - Keep driving your gas hog. Do not switch to efficient car fueled by low cost alcohol as we have done here in Brazil to become energy self-sufficient. I mainly differ for most "oil barrons" in that GWB and his kind will never get any campaign money from me.

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(I want to help America because all my grandchildren live there. - I even wrote a book trying to do this. See details at web site under my name - How to read it for free etc.)

 

The british are to blame for jack shit!!

Boundaries, is what keeps all these loonies penned in, if there were no boundaries sadaam & iran would have invaded all the middle east, & would have been on the borders of europe by now.

The british are not to blame for the wild west in the middle east, the united nations is to blame or russia & china, who make the UN a laughing stock, who block every damn sanction against every nut country, from north korea or burma, or iran, or zimbabwe, these 2 parasite governments need kicking off the UN.

Bin lid in afghanistan is to blame for the iraq fiasco, as he sends his wind up robots from paki land & othere loony countries, to kill thousands of muslims in iraq, trying to start a civil war, then he can blame it on the west, even though he has killed more muslims in iraq, than anybody fucking else, but that fact seems to bounce over muslims heads.

I mean christ his pawns killed 27 kids getting sweets off american soldiers, but hell lets not blame the real culprits bin lid, when we can blame the US or the UK, for giving them sweets in the first place.

It is not the US or UK jobs to make iraqies civilised or other muslims either, and that is the biggest problem in the middle east, there all savages, but instead of spears they have bombs.

The middle east problem is down to one religon, islam.
When they get there heads out of the koran, and into the real world, and not the world of thousands of years ago, that they are all still living in, with barbaric beheadings & honour killings, amongst thousands of more savage rituals they have.

I will never comprehend how muslims worship bin lid, when he has on purpose killed hundreds if not thousands of muslims in iraq, including kids.

The same guy bin lid killed 230 kenyan muslims, to kill a lousy 8 americans in the american embassy attack years ago, what is he saying here, it is worth to kill hundreds of muslims to kill a handful of americans, boy oh boy a muslim life is cheap to him.

Just like the 27 kids he sacrificed to kill a american soldier handing sweets out, yeah bin lid is certainly a hero.

 

In general, you did not understand my post, so I will be specific in this response.

For convenience of response, I numbered your paragraphs.
(0) Don't know about this "jack shit" stuff. I was not blaming Brits, only noting historical fact (BFO did draw the boundaries) which, by including 3 different cultures in Iraq was useful at the time but is now making it difficult to form a unified government for Iraq. - It is still far from clear there will be one nation of Iraq in the end.
(1) I have nothing against "boundaries." Different cultures should have clear lines between them where the laws change. Etc. The mix of people supporting religious vs. secular government in Iraq is a large part of the problem there - Read(0) again if you did not understand/ agree on first reading.
(2) UN etc are useful places to hurl words instead of bullets and bombs at people/nations who have different interest than you do. For example, pre invasion of Iraq, France was the major supplier to Iraq (Built the telephone system etc.) and had most of the lucrative oil contracts. Russia was the major supplier of oil field technology. The US and its oil interests were essentially frozen out. This is about as clear a conflict of economic interest as one can imagine and it has been, unfortunately, resolved with bombs and bullets, so "Yes" the UN failed here. (Now US's puppet government gives the oil contracts to US firms and Halliburton has replaced Russia as supplier of oil field technology, but the production has not yet returned to the pre-invasion levels. This is a small part of the cause of the current oil prices.
(3) I think you give Bin too much credit. All now admit he had essentially no influence in Iraq, pre-invasion. (Sadam did not take kindly to any organized forces in Iraq except his own - to put it mildly.)
250years ago, when the Brits were occupying the "American colony" the locals were no different than Iraq's locals today. - They did not like to occupied, but in both case, most recognize "it is for their own good." (The native Indians and French were the main danger to your colony, and BTW, thanks for helping protect my American ancestors. - I, at least, recognize that the "tea tax" etc. being collected did not begin to cover the cost of the solders Britain was supplying to protect the new colony against these threats, but that is never mentioned in US's history books.)
(4) Yes, killing innocent people is deplorable, whether by low-tech suicide bomber's explosive belt or high-tech laser-guided bomb taking out a wedding party foolish enough to shoot into the air in their traditional celebration mode. That is, both sides have their "collateral damage" problems; perhaps US should assist the terrorists with some of its "pin-point" accuracy technology?

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(5) I am not a Muslim, but I am highly offended by your "Their all savages." remark and your obvious ignorance behind it is regretable. (Hope you do not mind my correction of your "There," but that is not the ignorance I am speaking of.) I would like to remind you that when your (and my) ancestors did not have ability to even read, these "savages," such as Ormar Khayyam, were writing poetry, of such sensitivity that Edward Fitzgerald, (a Brit BTW) translated one long poem several different times into English, and yet was never quite satisfied that he had captured the beauty of the original.

For your badly needed education, I will quote the start of The Rubaiyat from Fitzgerald's best known version:

"Wake! For the sun who scatter'd into flight
The stars before him from the field of night,
Drives night along with them and strikes
The Sultan's Turret with a shaft of light."

Since this is SCIforum, I will skip 39 pages into this deeply philosophical poem to quote:

"And that inverted bowl, they call the sky,
Where under crawling coop'd we live and die,
Lift not your hands to It for help - for It
as impotently moves as you or I."


Savages Indeed! - This while your ancestors did not know how to wipe their ass, or even that it might be desirable to do so!

(6)Oh, yes! Christians pulling Jews apart on the rack or more recently dropping anti-personnel fragmentation bombs into villages of Iraq etc. is much more advanced that the low-tech "barbaric beheadings." Placing an offending homosexual in prison where they will be sexually abused for years is much more civilized than a "honor killing" for the same type of offense against the social standards. (I condemn both societies. - Sex, freely (or even for money) engaged in between adults should be no concern of the society at large.)
(7) Some disreputable people are often treated as heroes (not worship in Islam, of course) in all societies. - For example, Gen Sherman destroyed every house, man woman and child or at least the lively hood in a 100 mile wide swath as he marched thru Georgia to the sea and received several metals for a job “well done.” (Or Hiltler, before Germany was in ruins, if you want a more recent example. etc.) So what is new or different here?
(8) I do not know the answer to this one. - Bin, may not be responsible, but even if we assume he is, it is a small crime against the innocent compared to Hiroshima, or Dresden etc. As they say: "War is hell."
I might also note that almost without exception, the people who wanted the war (typically those who will profit from it, like Halliburton owners, its high level employees) are not the ones who die. That task is reserved for the locals and the invaders.

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"I am highly offended by your "Their all savages." remark."



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4918392.stm



"Homosexuality is a serious offence in the Gulf, punishable by flogging and imprisonment. "







What would you call people who flog people because they are gay, or imprison them, after all we are all supposed to be civilised now, are we not?

2 teenagers got hanged in iran recently for being gay, is that the way civilised humans behave?


You give me a muslim poem, i will give you a riddle in return>

Why have people of a certain religon , have never invented anything, throughout history, have never developed vaccines or contributed anything to mankind.

Is it buddhists, catholics, christians, jews, i will give you a clue, there entire life revolves around the colour black, black oil, black clothes, and a certain book they read every day.

I know what my country the UK & the US & china & japan & europe have invented, every damn thing you see in front of you, the telephone, computer, tv, the lightbulb.

Billy what is there contribution to mankind, do you know what a parasite is, it feeds off others & lives off them, why we keep the parasite healthy.

This is not hatred, this is a genuine question, why have 1 billion people, done nothing for mankind, is it against there religon to contribute to mankind, or is it because they have no time to do so because there reading that book they all love.

Christ i have no doubt by now, every one of them know this book word for word, by now, & like dustman hoffman in the rainman, they could recite any given page on request, much like diamond hearts.

Good old diamond made a list for me of there inventions, about 6, i checked them the first 2 were complete lies, it was european inventions, after that i stopped looking, if his first 2 star inventions were lies, whats the point of checking the rest. I told diamond they were lies,and showed him so, as usual no response.

The only place you will find a list of ther inventions is on there hate sites, or propaganda sites, but there is none in any legitamate site, because there contribution is zero to mankind.

 

I was active in the US civil rights movement in my younger days. Unfortunately, I have forgotten the song in which lynching "uppity blacks" (ones wanting to vote, sit anywhere in the bus, etc.) from the nearest tree was referred to as "Southern trees, that bear such strange fruit." To answer your question more directly: No that is not something I like to see in any society.

Less than an hour ago, I was watching the BBC's program "Have your say." The subject was AIDs and condoms. The main guest was a Catholic priest. One of the callers explained he had AIDs and his wife did not. Both were in their early 20s. Did the priest think it OK in this case for him to use a condom or must they abstain from intercourse for the rest of their lives? You guess the priest's answer. - I find that equally uncivilized.

It is amazing what religion can achieve. Some Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh Day advocates (I think) have gone to court to make sure “god’s will” was not thwarted by a blood transfusion for their OWN child! Then there is the mass that drank the “Jonestown cocktail" together. Etc. - Moslems have no monopoly on this sort of thing and only my ignorance prevents me from mentioning some of their achievements, but I believe the Crusaders still hold the record on "Religious Nonsense", unless you want to call Germany's "National Socialism" a religion.

You are correct in the view that most people in Moslem societies have not progressed much in last 1000 years. Except for the fact they have not existed that long, the same is true of the Amish - They want to live as in Biblical times, some will not even use buttons (only hooks) to close their clothes, much less cars.

You seem to place no value on cultures that lack your material standards. Well, I don't think it will be as bad in England as in the US because your infrastructure is less materially advanced, (I think) but both England and US will be in great difficulty, compared to these "less advanced" societies when oil is $250/barrel.

By choice, I moved to Brazil, a less materialistically advanced society than the US, certainly, once you get out of the main cities. One like the US was four generations ago. - Horse drawn buggies mix with imported cars on the roads, etc. in all the smaller towns. Brazil grows much of its fuel (sugar cane alcohol). If you are English, as I have been assuming, at least you may be still, unlike the Americans, living in unheated houses, wearing heavy sweaters in winter, riding the bus (or in the "tube") to work instead of your gas hog car, etc. You may find this lack of material advance was a good fortune in the not too distant future. I am not disturbed by the lack of material advances in either the Amish or the Moslem cultures. Perhaps it is the most advanced (the Americans) who will soon best understand my "strange" view of what is important in life. I close this part of my response with a couple of stanzas more of Omar's advice:

"Waste not your hour, nor in the vain pursuit
of This and That endeavor and dispute;
Better be jocund with the fruitful Grape
Than saddened after none or bitter fruit."

Near the end of the poem Omar is literally continuing his some what allegorical praise of wine, but I recast it to clearly be the long hours of your life you "trade" for the salary with which you buy those material goods you so cherish as the hallmarks of an advanced civilization (I.e. understand "wine" as your life, you as the "vintner" selling it for those highly valued, material, oil-based objects you think so important.):

"As much as wine has played the Infidel,
And robbed me of my Robe of Honor - well,
I often wonder what the Vintners buy,
One half so precious as the stuff they sell."

OR:

"Ah Love! Could you and I with Him conspire
To grasp this sorry Scheme of things entire,
Would not we shatter it to bits - and then
Re-mold it nearer to the Heart's Desire?!"

You forgot to mention, mustard gas, atom bombs, ICBMs, etc. There is a poll in progress asking what will be the end of mankind. - Your "material advances" are not doing too badly, but last time I looked "other" was in the lead. - It no doubt includes a lot of your material objects as well.

As far as excessive time reading holly books is concerned, the Moslems probably do not even disserve "second place" compared to the monks of many different religions, especially those monks who think that sleeping with someone, even if of the opposite sex, is the less honorable life in that it interferes with their religious duties. As far as I know, the idea that a Moslem man should go into some cave or monastery to be holly is common on both sides of Islamic lands but correctly seen as silly waste of one's life in Islam.

 

Vincent and many others on this forum might not appreciate this, but I do very much. Thank you for making this clear and defending Muslims as people.

This is the type of thing which should get people banned from sciforums. Calling all Muslims savages. He has a long record of this type of hatred.

I provided more than six, I'm sure of that. Maybe you meant six website links. Also, I would like you to elaborate on what exactly were these inventions by Europeans which I incorrectly attributed to Muslims.

You are incorrect and you have not provided any proof as to your accusations. If you believe Muslims are not capable of intelligence and hence are not responsible for any scientific achievement in history, you are gravely wrong. I think your accusation that we are all savages pretty much shows your ignorance.

Your knowledge of Islam is exemplary. I see you are very knowledgeable of many things in history and religion. Glad to see you posting on sciforums.

Blessings to you and your family.

Peace.

 

It's they're, as in, "they are," a contraction of the plural of to be. Their is possesive. There describes location.