Creation and evolution go hand in hand

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by arauca, Dec 2, 2011.

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  1. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    I think that if the genesis of life began on earth we would find much simpler forms of life than we do.
    I understand the argument that better and larger forms would have pushed the more primitive life forms out of most niches, but they should still exist.
    Surely some places would be of out of reach for beings of bacterial size, or there would be some other advantage to a smaller size.
    There should be a proliferation of proto-forms.

    It could be that advanced life forms can only exist on planets that have not developed their own life.
    Perhaps the bacterium is the highest planets get to if they have to compete with more primitive forms.
    Any human visitors to Mars will have to be careful what they bring back, the primitive life forms they pick up might kill us all by using up all the nutrients.

    (If any science fiction writer wants to use this theme, please send me $10. Film rights not included)


    When you talk about life on Mercury, do you mean before the sun had accreted enough material to fire up?
    That would be a pretty harsh environment.
    My guess is Mars, when it had seas.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
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  3. Aladdin Registered Senior Member

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    Here's another one: Jesus kept away from these forums, so why don't you follow on his footsteps and do the same?

    Your postings (on this thread) are either stupid or insulting, or both, and you come across as dumber than the law requires. Just sad, really.
     
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  5. arauca Banned Banned

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    Talk chemistry, don't talk to me Dawkin's
     
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  7. arauca Banned Banned

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    Please describe as what is stupid . Talk science on chemical bases, otherwise you can take the insult upon your self .
    This is what you atheist are good for waving hands and insulting, and then hide your self behind science .
     
  8. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    Aruaca speaks Spanish and writes in English, could you do that?

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  9. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    I really appreciated your post for it showed a depth of thinking about the subject. Mars was very cold if there was water on it and during the protosun period it would have been extremely cold.
    Trying explain the stages of the protosun contracting down to the sun. It is not accreting material but rather loosing material. Have you been able to imagine that yet?
    Try and picture the protosun spitting out bits of material sufficient to build the planets. Once you can get that you will see Mercury will not be as hostile as you currently imagine.

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  10. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    A warning is informal. If you get twelve it won't do anything to your status. However, when a Moderator is trying to decide if a rule violation is serious enough to issue a ban, he'll look up the member's record to see if he's just having a bad day or if he spends a lot of time dancing on the edge and it's time to knock him off for a few days. I did exactly that and this is why he's still here. If he had twelve previous warnings (or even three) he'd be on vacation.
    That was not my complaint in this instance, but yes, we don't like that. Presumably everyone here passed sixth grade and learned how to write a book report. Please use that skill to provide us with a concise abstraction of the points in your source material. Why should twenty people spend a total of half an hour reading the same material twenty times, to save one member the five minutes it would take to abstract it? In the process he would develop a deeper understanding of his subject material and that would greatly enhance the future course of the discussion.
    I refer to this as human hubris. As I noted in another discussion, we are just so dadgum special that a whole new catalog of natural laws have to be elaborated to explain this one little species on this one little planet in this one little galaxy. It's certainly lucky that we are unique, because if there were other species like us (but totally different from us in detail) elsewhere in the universe, the scientific canon would be riddled with so many little asterisks that it would be a joke.
    Animals and Plants are only two of the six taxonomic Kingdoms. Don't forget the Fungi, Algae, Bacteria and Archaea!
    It's worse than non-science. It's worse than the Fallacy of Anthropocentrism (a more formal word for human hubris). It's the Fallacy of Recursion!

    A standard, unremarkable definition of the word "universe" is: "everything that exists." Any force, thing, creature or phenomenon that can make a Big Bang and everything that happened in its wake must obviously exist. Therefore it is part of the universe. Therefore it created itself. Q.E.D. I don't know about your generation, but we all learned about the Basic Bonehead Fallacies in our first year of university classes.
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Simpler than archaea? They're basically small bags of goo - no nucleus, mitochondria, golgi bodies etc.
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    A virus is simple.
     
  13. Aladdin Registered Senior Member

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    Stupid is to come with a theory for which you have not the slightest shred of evidence and then take affront when people are not impressed. Worse, you've started insulting for no good reason and that pretty much did it for me.


    Yeah, I can. (Not Spanish, but a different Latin language.) So what?
     
  14. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    But i get the sense English is still your main language for day to day communication. You know another language which is great.
    Argue the points not the person. We want to resolve this creation -Evolution problem in my lifetime please.

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  15. Aladdin Registered Senior Member

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    Now this is something worth talking about...

    I pretty much accepted the above definition of universe for a long time, certainly in my childhood, but ain't so sure anymore. There are people (Martin Rees comes to mind) that suspect there may be more than one universe. A lot more; perhaps, an infinity. Most of these other universes will be bare, chaotic places, incapable of any sort of complex organization. Different physical laws, different number of dimensions, that kind of thing. Any two universes will never interact with one another. They are like totally separate bubbles, with various internal structures, that "float" (expanding or contracting) in the nothingness that surrounds them.

    Of course, this is another unsupported theory. But one holding more seducing power than what is postulated in the original post of this thread.
     
  16. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    It might be a thought that could make you drift off to sleep at night, thinking of the features of a different universe every night. Instead of counting sheep count Universes.
    Are all the multi- universes in the same Infinite Space? If they are why would they not intersect each other?
     
  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Now that the currently fashionable iteration of the Big Bang hypothesis tells us that there is no space-time continuum outside our Hubble Volume, this makes sense. If the Big Bang (basically a really large temporally local and spatially local reversal of entropy, which does not violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics) can occur "here"--whatever that word now means--then there's no reason to assume that it can't occur... uh, have occurred... uh, will occur... in other "times" and "places," whatever those words now mean.
    Just like there might not be amino acids anywhere else in the universe so there might not be life anywhere else. Although that's a weak analogy because sci-fi writers have been describing non-DNA-based life for decades.

    On the other hand, just as there might be sixteen other planets in our entire Hubble Volume where life managed to arise, there might be sixteen other Hubble Volumes in which matter and energy (or something vaguely analogous) came into existence.

    There's no reason to assume that there can't be an infinite number of these other universes, so the Law of Averages greately increases the probability of something like this happening more than once.
    Uh... I don't know about you, but no one has yet given me a convincing description of that "nothingness." So I think this prediction is a little premature.
    Hey, that merely depends on what one happens to find seductive. Does it have Muppets? That will get the Mrs. and me every time.
     
  18. arauca Banned Banned

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    Apparently you ignored mu previous position . ( Creation and evolution go hand and hand )
    At this point there was no intention of mine to discuss Big Bang.
    Then intent is to discuss living organism. see post #14 were later I continue discuss about Chemistry.
    I hope you would have some common sense to read from the beginning instead pick up at the middle and start your insolence , ( you must be Australian to be so rude )
    1 ) Find me a site were RIBOSOME have been made without natural intervention ( a RUSSIAN CHEMIST have made an attempt) check literature this is an important component for RNA for you primordial soup
    2 ) I posted some literature were they discuss replication . The replication is based on a existing polypeptide I believe from yeast ( Yeast natural component , there was no yeast in the primordial soup )
    I can continue unravel on the proposed model , but for now , if you don't get the message go check with your 6 year old kid is were you are hiding yourself when you are posting , by asking questions .
     
  19. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    The archaea are quite a way up the tree, and quite large, as are bacteria.
    Looking at the tree, if the seed of life on our planet arrived from another planet, it must have been the precursor of Eukariotes and Prokariotes and Archaea.
    ( Not arriving as Bacteria, as I mooted earlier)
    Everything splits off from an unknown parent, which is now extinct.

    I don't have any fixed opinions on this matter, I am just sharing my thoughts on the subject.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  20. arauca Banned Banned

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    I know to whom you are directing .
    Let's talk science : You tell me what was before the Big Bang , How big of a mass of matter was there , that have produced all the celestial bodies , were was all that energy stored to initiate the expansion , I can ask some more ,
    This bonehead don't know , the beginning of the universe nor if it does have a limit or not , Perhaps you the intellectuals have the facts , I would like to hear and analyze your facts,
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    No energy was required for the Big Bang to happen.
     
  22. Aladdin Registered Senior Member

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    Since I previously mentioned Martin Rees and his speculation on multiple universes, here's a portion of an interview with him that addresses this particular issue: How Many Universes Exist?. Maybe some of you will find it interesting (though, I guess, is somehow off-topic for this thread).
     
  23. Aladdin Registered Senior Member

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    Unfortunately not. But tell you what: I will from now on. You've earn your spot on my ignore list.
     
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