Creation and evolution go hand in hand

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by arauca, Dec 2, 2011.

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  1. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    It could be the continual interbreeding between the two strains that is making the breeding program slow down. Rationalists watch out who your sons and daughters are marrying! You are slowing down the real evolutionary advantage of being a God Child.
    You might think this is a bit weird but I have seen some hints that there are differences in the brains of believers and non-believers.
    So will the nons try and wipe out the others?
     
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  3. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Provide links to this please.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    From Wiki:

    ==================
    Evolutionary computation

    In computer science, evolutionary computation is a subfield of artificial intelligence (more particularly computational intelligence) that involves combinatorial optimization problems.

    Evolutionary computation uses iterative progress, such as growth or development in a population. This population is then selected in a guided random search using parallel processing to achieve the desired end. Such processes are often inspired by biological mechanisms of evolution.

    As evolution can produce highly optimised processes and networks, it has many applications in computer science. Here, simulations of evolution using evolutionary algorithms and artificial life started with the work of Nils Aall Barricelli in the 1960s, and was extended by Alex Fraser, who published a series of papers on simulation of artificial selection. Artificial evolution became a widely recognised optimisation method as a result of the work of Ingo Rechenberg in the 1960s and early 1970s, who used evolution strategies to solve complex engineering problems. Genetic algorithms in particular became popular through the writing of John Holland. As academic interest grew, dramatic increases in the power of computers allowed practical applications, including the automatic evolution of computer programs. Evolutionary algorithms are now used to solve multi-dimensional problems more efficiently than software produced by human designers, and also to optimise the design of systems.
    ================================
     
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  7. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    A world of it's own. I had a quick look but that is a completely new field to me.

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  8. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    I did read about this recently where a short section of RNA replicated, but like a lot of things read, and never to be found again. So keep looking it is around.

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  9. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    This is the simplest form of life yet discovered.

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    Carsonella Ruddii


    Even this has 182 Genes.
    Good place to start looking though.
    That's the smallest by far, though like mitochondria it can only live inside other cells.

    Next come parasitic bacteria, and then free living bacteria.
    By the time you get to the simplest free living bacteria, there is already a high degree of complexity.

    I don't want to argue from a Gods-hands-on creationist point of view, I don't believe it to be true,
    but it is a great mystery why the only surviving creatures are all incredibly complex.
    You would have thought the simpler creatures would have found some niche to survive in.
    Why are there no examples whatsoever of the simpler life forms?

    I suppose life on Earth could have started from bacteria originating on Mars.
    Perhaps we will find the missing precursors there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  10. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    I think you hit the nail on the head. The simpler the life form, the more complex is its surroundings. Like a virus is simple but it needs a body to infect in order to survive. So these simple life forms were around but they were not from this planet. Here we see the ones that could survive the transfer from planet to planet space travel (in other words complex) for they had to inhabit and grow in a hostile world when they first arrived on Earth.
    The simple life forms were found on the "incubator planet". I have proposed that planet to be Mercury during the late Protosun period.

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  11. arauca Banned Banned

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    Can we add to the simple parasitic bacteria The mitochondria, the one which is indispensable and at same time it kills the organism . it also uses the machinery of the cell to survive.
     
  12. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Mitochondria.
    Symbiotic I think.
    It is the body's energy supplier.
    Not sure what you mean about "kills the organism"
     
  13. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    Yes we are a complex individual with 2 sets of DNA the Nuclear and the mitochondrial DNA. We are a complex environment supporting the Mitochondrial life form.

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  14. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    You could start here for one model that suggests very basic beginnings are quite possible.

    As you could imagine, such a simple chemical replication system wouldn't last within the complex competition we now find everywhere on Earth, but back in the beginning, it would have had no such competitors, at least none until it began evolving.
     
  15. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    What about prions?
     
  16. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    I doubt if any one would say a prions is living. It just has infectivity, but nothing mush else.
     
  17. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    I wouldn't say prions, viruses aren't living due to the wider definition of *living*.
     
  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Precisely. In your imaginary universe, God is clearly a living being. Therefore, if God created all life, then he must have created himself. This is the Fallacy of Recursion. Those of us with real educations (rather than religious "educations") learned to watch out for this kind of blunder in our first year in college. Your model of the universe is illogical and therefore impossible.
    I just identified the logical fallacy in your hypothesis of creation. To disprove something is not "bashing it." It's just good science. And considering how bonehead-obvious this fallacy is (it's not a half-page syllogism with ten complicated steps!) those who do not understand the fallacy are, indeed, "stupid." I can't think of a better word for them.
    We are open-minded. The scientific method ensures open-mindedness by requiring evidence, logical reasoning and peer review before a hypothesis can be accepted as "true beyond a reasonable doubt," and even then the possibility always exists that new evidence gathered in the future may require it to be revised or, in rare cases, discarded.

    Your hypothesis has been peer-reviewed and it failed the review due to lack of logical reasoning. I am not the first person to disprove your hypothesis, it has been done many times. When a hypothesis has been disproved many times, we are under no obligation to treat it with respect any more. And when people continue to present it anyway, ignoring the results of the peer review, we're well within our rights to stop treating them with respect as well. Again, about all we can call them is "stupid," because we just can't find a better word for it.
    The definition of the word "universe" is "everything that exists." In your imaginary universe, God clearly exists, or he would not be able to do the things with which he is credited. So if God created the universe, then he must have created himself. This is another instance of the Fallacy of Recursion. Once again, your hypothesis has failed a peer review... many times. So once again, we have no choice but to call people "stupid" who ignore the results of the peer review and continue to waste everyone's time by presenting it over and over and over again.

    Although the word "annoying" also comes to mind. There are so many important problems to solve in the world. Why do we have to waste precious resources identifying people who continue to hold obviously fallacious ideas inherited from the Stone Age, and doing our best to keep them from thwarting the spread of science, which could cause serious damage to civilization?
    No, actually it shows the Catholic intellect. The leaders of that religion have found a way to accept science without falsifying their own religion. So have the leaders of most of the respectable religions in the United States and in many other countries--Christian as well as other denominations. They have avoided acting stupid and therefore they don't deserve to be called stupid.
    I'm not sure I understand that question. But if I do, my answer is that most of the modern Christian churches do not require acceptance of illogical fairytales about evolution, although they would nonetheless probably not excommunicate you for it.
    A prion has proteins but no nucleic acids--RNA or DNA. Even a virus has nucleic acids, yet viruses are not counted as lifeforms. Therefore prions are not either.
     
  19. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    The question related to the purpose of Creation. Which I understand from scripture being the advent of the Sons of God. Can you imagine evolution driving itself to the point where it produces Gods? Now it took me by surprise when I attempted to understand this too. "Hands free" creation but to know the final outcome.
    For we know where we've come from but where are we heading? Where is evolution taking us?

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  20. arauca Banned Banned

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    This is more crap.
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  21. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    @Arauca What is your bottom line? Where do you personally stand?
     
  22. arauca Banned Banned

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    I believe in a Creator who programmed the living organism, me and every other being .
    I don't discuss about the universe , I can talk about the earth only , from were the living cell come from and and how it was made I don't know.
    One thing I can say it is to complicated .
    Some how you have to make Ribose so far it have not be made from skratch
    Some amino acid perhaps are made in space
    Perhaps some nucleotide are made in space
    Phosphate are easy to obtain
    The problem comes to ensemble
    I know you can make miselle from fatty acid in water , but to make a membrane you need phospholipid at the same time, you need to esteify Glycerine with fatty acid then react the glycerol with a phosphoric acid to make a phospholipid .
    Now we need ensamble pyridine , deoxyribose and phosphate , so let say we did it . Let say for the hell of it we made a open virus , so ok we have virus that is no life .
    Now we need the machinery for replication and much more
    How do you do it at random ?
    You can continue thinking . I think you have to have separated Ithem first than carefully bring them together ,
    I am sure there are many clever people and with proper equipment they have attempted but everybody keeps its failure quietly . I know people say you have million of years , one thing reaction go forward and backward .
    any way let. Fraggle Rocker make it he is a wise guy , he knows how to make at random. He spils life when he masturbates
     
  23. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    I was challenged by the Holy Spirit to "Now Solve Genesis". Those were the words spoken to me in 1998 - 99. I was going look at working on the project during my retirement.
    So I don't have any preconceived ideas. In my view it is all open for discussion.

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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
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