# Creating the worlds strongest sword?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by EmptyForceOfChi, Oct 30, 2005.

1. ### DinosaurRational SkepticValued Senior Member

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4,885
This is the 21th century. metallurgy is a well established technology. There are no great secrets known only to a few adept masters.

If you really want to know how to make a wonderful sword, make up a set of specifications. Almost any competent metallurgist will be able to tell you if your requirements can be met and if so, how it can be done. You could probably find a ready made blade that is almost as good as any custom made one you could have manufactured.

3. ### EmptyForceOfChiBannedBanned

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10,848
hey as we have an expert in the house,

could you share a little observational knowledge, i myself can tell a good sword from a machined blade, but cant exactly tell the difference between 2 simular looking hand forged blades and wich is stronger, could you take a look at this sword and tell me if you think its a good piece,

thanks.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/39-8-Fantasti...585212299QQcategoryZ20272QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

peace.

5. ### namelessRegistered Senior Member

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686
Stronger, stronger.. exactly what does that mean to you?
Flexibility of blade? Torque resistance? Impact resistance? Homogeneity of the steel? That is one place that a hack swordsmith can ruin a perfectly good piece of steel!
There are great books on "The Craft of the Japanese Sword". Read, do homework. One doesnt just go out and buy a machine-gun cause it sounds like a good idea at the time.
Why the fixation on strength (whatever that means to you)? Gonna take out the senior class? For sword practice, a blunt cheap blade will get you through the first few years... First thing to 'cut' is the ego! A bokken is even better!

It is a five day listing. No bids and so far (with 11 hours to go) going for a few pennies and about $80. shipping. Without the shipping, the price is right. Not worth much more than a few cents. You get what you pay for here. Combat tough without the frills will cost you about$300.

The text says that you can chop iron with it... uh huh...
The tsuba (guard) looks to be cheaply plated and cast (probably 'pot' metal).
The saya (scabbard) looks 'painted'.
The hamon (temper line) looks fake.
Blade looks machine polished and buffed..
The same (stingray hide wrapping) is probably plastic..
Small handle.
Poorly balanced and shoddy. It would be like swinging a bat!

Think CHEAP CRAP!!

The sword was the warrior's most expensive purchace of his life, which, by the way, depended on it! You get the best you can afford.
Musashi won his final duels with a wooden boken.
"The master is himself 'sharpened', whatever weapon is in his hand becomes heroic!"

Only good for spreading butter and hanging on the wall. But, ahhh, the stories you can tell the naive grandkids!

Find some quality items and information here;
http://bugei.com/
and here;
http://www.coldsteel.com/88kwarser.html

And for a tasty treat, you might wish to peruse this site;
http://www.valiantco.com/

Go and learn, grasshopper, the sword of the spirit awaits you!
*__-

Last edited: Dec 7, 2005

7. ### EmptyForceOfChiBannedBanned

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10,848
thanks,

by saying "strong" in general, i mean a sword that will last a long time without breaking, all of my weapons are practical, none are just for show i use them all, the sword would have to be battle ready, price is no concern, (unless its over say 15 grand)

thanks for those links i will check them out,

peace

8. ### namelessRegistered Senior Member

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686
You're welcome.
Do you use no other bladed weapons?
I made a slightly altered batlith(?) (Klingon sword..) once that could clear a room mighty quick! Hahahahaha...
Any reputable dealer would guarantee the sword against failure, under reasonable conditions, for life.
No, chopping iron is a no-no!

*__-

10. ### EmptyForceOfChiBannedBanned

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10,848

yeah i have many blade weapons, a tanto wakizashi, katana, dao, can convert into a kwan-dao, a small straight edged blackened steel ninjutsu sword, im unnaware of its real name, i have many bokkens and training weapons for sparring, none of my things are for show all for training and practicle use,

i would not pay 15 thou for a sword at this current time, i could get the money but wouldent want to spend it all on that, i wil spend up to £800-£900 this time around, but depending on quality i would prefer to check the sword out fully and practise with it with some bamboo chopping before purchasing a sword worth that much,

peace,

11. ### EmptyForceOfChiBannedBanned

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10,848

i prefer my gim sword to my katana. a katana is slower than alot of swords, but i wield it swiftly with not much effort, i train wielding 35 kilo training sword/boken/poles to workout my wrists arms shoulders back chest legs etc, then when using a katana it feels like a thin bamboo stick in your hands,

peace,

12. ### namelessRegistered Senior Member

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686
I know what you mean. Cutting bamboo is not the best of idea for your fine sword. Usually rolled wet tatami mats are cheap and have some correspondence with the human body. Cutting a hanging thread without pulling the whole thing down at the same time is a good practice for sharpness and edge orientation.

You can have one custom made, of excellent quality, for a few grand! Unless you want to get in line to have one made by a Japanese 'national treasure'...
Good luck!

13. ### RomanBannedBanned

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11,560
How many times can you block a sword with your sword before it breaks? I've heard that catching a few such 'Hollywood' blows will pretty much destroy your sword. As the samurai fought with two handed swords that killed with the blade, there was a lot of swinging. Which resulted in lots of broken swords, and some sort of fighting style to prevent your balde from being broken. Can any of you confirm this?

And would catching an opponents sword blade with yours count as chopping iron? What about striking your armored opponent?

14. ### namelessRegistered Senior Member

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686
A good quality sword will not break in use.
That is how the story goes regarding the folding of the steel for the blades. The emperor found that too many swords were breaking in use and ordered his smiths to 'remedy' that situation. Folding the steel helped to distribute the carbon throughout the blade evenly so there are not hard spots and soft. And with differential tempering (hard edge/soft spine), they became very tough blades. But like everything, the blade has a useful lifespan. A warrior knew when his blade was 'tired', and 'retired' it. The problem with hitting other swords and metal armor was chipping the edge. Resharpening the blade meant regrinding the whole thing. Eventually, the hard edge extremity was reached in the regrinding and the sword was now dead. Ready for the wall or closet.

Actually, any well tempered blade WITH THE APPROPRIATE EDGE GEOMETRY can cut a bolt in half without damage, under controlled conditions. Dramatic salesmanship, but a warrior avoides such frippery as unworthy of his 'soul'.

Different edge geometry is necessary for different functions. And amalgamations and juggling of qualities is necessary many times. The edge of an axe is much thicker to chop wood as compared to the edge of a slicing knife meant to slice meat efficiently. A cleaver is a bit thicker as sometimes it chops a bone (oops) along with the onions. Look how 'thick' the edge is on a katana! Edge = actual cutting edge + the immediate metal backing that edge.

15. ### sci fierRegistered Member

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4
so what im getting is...

so what im getting is that it would be impossible to create a sword that could be light, strong, and hold an edge against hard objects short of some new tech discovery? what about a sword that could cut through weapons grade steel?

also what sort of chances would a swordman have on a modern battlefield, assuming he/she could get close enough to engage the enemy?

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443
bueno suerte

17. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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53,966
I think the best thing would be a segmented synthetic diamond blade held in an alloy track, perhaps a metal-matrix composite of high carbon steel with carbon nanotube fiber reinforcement. Each nanotube would be routed (before the metal is electroformed) to a small vial in the handle containing sea snake venom.

Last edited: Apr 11, 2007
18. ### PossumkingI think, I am?Registered Senior Member

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385
My my...a thread started back in '05 has suddenly been brought back to life

19. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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10,167
The strongest sword might not be the best sword.

You want a good edge (hardness), that either stays sharp without chipping or is easily reformed.
So a diamond edge could stay very sharp, but would chip and couldn't be resharpened. Maybe an artificial crystal that chips off in flakes, leaving a sharp edge behind? Or perhaps coated tungsten carbide? Or maybe a replaceable edge, like replaceable tool inserts?

as wellas the edge, you want a strong support. Something that won't snap easily (ie not brittle), won't bend too much, and isn't too heavy. Realistically, I don't know if you could go past steel. Maybe titanium or an aluminum alloy, I guess. I'm not much of a metallurgist.

I think that top end knives, scissors, chisels, gouges, and planes would have the best blade technology, that should be adaptable to swords.

20. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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10,167
Thread necromancy... you've got to love it

21. ### RomanBannedBanned

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11,560
I hear that the Japanese developed the steel folding technique because Japanese iron was terribly soft. Most of the time, they tried to get weapons from the mainland, as they were of superior material.

European swords weren't made using the folding technique for two reasons: it wasn't needed, and the metal would betoo stiff to fold anyway. Though with modern alloys and technique, you can make incredibly awesome blades by combining folding, modern metalworking equipment, and good metal.

22. ### namelessRegistered Senior Member

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686
You are being much too literal. When the Samurai considered his sword his soul, he was serious. The 'battle' is not waged with actual sharpened steel on actual flesh and bones. At the highest level, the 'battle' is a reflection of the 'internal'. The sword cuts the ego, polished, it reflects 'truth', severs delusion... it is not about which company can sell a sword that might take out a 'snuke' or a Bradley tank; all of which belong to the 'ego and delusion' category.

The mastering of the sword is the mastering of 'self', of everything. Reflecting as all existence in the dewdrops of the dawn..

It is an 'internal/external' path into 'Truth' that has no 'external or internal'. It depends on ultimate intent and sincerity where the 'path' leads and whether one is to traverse it to the 'end'...
Peace
(or one can just change the channel and watch another movie..)
All is perfection as it is!

23. ### RomanBannedBanned

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11,560
And that's why the ancient and honorable samurai are still ruling their feudal empire.

Oh wait....