Courage not cowardice; balls not bluster

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xelor, Apr 23, 2018.

  1. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,527
    You know damned well what he meant, yet you chose to act like a school child: "Nyaa, nyaa. I can destroy your argument with one intentional misconstruing, so it's on you to prove me wrong."

    Piss off.
     
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    sorry. this is wholly dependent upon the will of the person and their desire for success, otherwise there would never be any attempts, just successes.

    I think it is far more effective to mitigate the problem before it gets to the point of suicidal attempts, hence my linking to mental health data
    In said data, Primary care and other physicians and mental health authorities can be trained to spot signs and symptoms of suicidal ideation, and as such, they can take the required steps to assist the person. This may include temorary removal of firearms, especially should said suicidal person have additional mental health issues. This is far, far more likely to succeed, but it will take concerted efforts to change the existing medical and mental health systems in our nation.

    banning guns to mitigate the problem is likely to not have the desired effect as it's in no way addressing the problem at all
    why not?
    They ban guns!

    actually, Japan is one of my favourite places in the world. I love the culture and can relate to some of the beliefs ... not all, though

    re-read what I wrote. I said it makes her capable. not able, but capable. This gives her a fighting chance to survive. You don't disarm antelope because the lions aren't as fast, so why disarm the public?
    Yeah, it's that simple, IMHO

    and you said it yourself - it's "True of many things - not just guns"
    When do we advocate for intelligence over violence?
    What about proper access to mental health?
    what about actually reforming the criminal? (There can't be rehabilitation if there is no original "habilitation", as John Douglas repeatedly notes in his talks)
    What about forcing the compliance to laws?

    The gun issue isn't about the tool. it's about the violence.
    Concentrate on effective means to control or stop the violence and you will change the gun deaths

    ok, how many were justified homicide (defense, etc)?
    the suicide rate (21,175) does not include any designation of public vs private

    So you can claim the numbers are public, but you can't claim that "Guns in public, though, kill about 30,000 people a year"
    that is making an assumption based on facts not present, and as such is an opinion, or, at best, an unproven claim as the data isn't available
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,993
    Gunners make with the false equivalences routinely, it's yet another way they lie about the situation. Nothing surprising there.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,528
    Sad that that's the best argument you can make. Such lack of ability to respond intelligently is all too common among gun extremists.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,528
    Right. Guns make suicide attempts, on average, very successful.

    Keep in mind that over 90% of people who attempt suicide (and survive) die by some other means, like old age. In other words, it's most often a transient desire. A gun turns a transient desire into a permanent outcome.
    I'm all for more mental health treatment. Solve the problem at both ends.
    Agreed.
    Right. Which is something I'm not in favor of.
    I like it as well, although Thailand would come out a little ahead for me.
    I don't think we should.

    Anyone who wants to carry a gun (and is not a criminal, and is sane, and a sober adult) should have a right to carry a gun. However, when guns are presented as a way to keep 80 year olds safe, they can do more harm than good. (Note that they can still do good - but for most people, the odds that they will harm them greatly outweigh the odds that they will help the,)
    What about them? All of them sound like good ideas.
    It is, of course, both.
    Agreed 100%. Gun control is just one of the many ways to reduce gun violence.
    The CDC (which hopefully you agree is a fairly authoritative source) lists 33636 deaths in 2013 from firearms. The data is available. That is about 30,000 people. It varies by a few thousand a year, between about 28,000 (1999) to 36,000 (2015.) As far as I know, none of them happened while the gun was in a gun safe.
     
  9. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,527
    Why should I respond intelligently to a childish troll? More pick and choose, more ignoring the points previously made, more time in the echo chamber, more stupidity.

    That's why I said that, as you well know, troll.

    Just for our edification, how many deaths per year result from cars and trucks and vans? Let me help!

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...onal-safety-council-traffic-deaths/340012002/

    In case you have trouble reading, in 2017 the death toll from cars was about 40,000.

    Piss off.
     
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,752
    Why does he keep telling people to piss off, when it's in his control, and all he has to do is Unwatch the thread?

    Is this vitriol unique, or it is common among gun-toters?
     
  11. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,527
    Just idiots, not most people.
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,542
    Do you think comparing mostly accidental deaths using a car with deliberate deaths using a gun ( suicide is deliberate btw) is of some value to the discussion?
     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,542
    but reducing guns might...
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,430
    Accidental deaths would be more of a threat from an object than suicide employing it, to most people.
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,542
    bah!
     
  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,440
    Of course he knew what I meant-------he ain't that stupid.
     
    Truck Captain Stumpy and Dr_Toad like this.
  17. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,527
    Sure plays it off well...
     
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,440
    when it suits his purpose with a minimal amount of effort.
     
    Dr_Toad and Truck Captain Stumpy like this.
  19. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,527
    The reason for returning with the "nyaa, nyaa" childishness.
     
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  20. Michael 345 Bali tonight Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,527
    I guess you're chortling at the 6 year old kid who when they find the car, start the motor, release the hand brake, press the accelerator and while going backwards run over their friend

    All because stupid dad left petrol in the tank

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    "
    if ya make a claim like this, ya really should link source material to support it
    subjective
    a gun and a desire, though this can be impulsive, can turn said transient desire into a permanent one

    Again, this can be mitigated better with better health care and mental health provided

    there is no reason to remove everyone's rights when we would be better off as a species addressing the core problem
    again: this is best demonstrated by Japan

    really?
    I didn't like Thailand as much, though I loved the country and the people. It may well have been due to the time of year as I am not a fan of heat. I prefer Alaska to Florida any day (for multiple reasons)

    don't misunderstand what I wrote. I said it "gives her a fighting chance to survive"
    the gun really is the great equalizer

    I've repeatedly said this in the past: the core problem isn't about the gun, it's about the violence
    we shouldn't be wasting money fighting a war against an inanimate object because this war is the main reason we have laws that aren't enforced... making more laws also confuses the issue and can lead to worsening problems with criminals lawyers using those confusions to create (or use) loopholes

    the fight should concentrate on funding enforcement of laws as well as functional corrections to the violence problem

    This is best demonstrated by cars in our society

    sort of - Yes, the gun plays a part, but it's nowhere near the part most people think
    we can curb the gun deaths by addressing the core problem and actually enforcing existing laws all without violating anyone's rights
    more to the point, if we start puttin funding into these areas, along with physical and mental health, we would see a better return, especially in the long run.

    I disagree: there is no evidence
    we can't use other nations because there is not comprehensive studies to demonstrate that the only factor in any reduction is due to gun control
    other nations also adopted other laws and other methods in conjunction with their gun control agenda


    that wasn't your claim: you stated
    nowhere do you mention a safe, and the definition of public is: "Pertaining to a state, nation, or whole community; proceeding from, re- lating to, or affecting the whole body of people or an entire community. Open to all; notorious. Common to all or many; general ; open to common use"

    note that I am intentionally using Blacks Law dictionary for clarity. In this case the selected definition would be Open to all, general.
    as such, until you can differentiate between public and private in the statistics, you cannot claim that the CDC table supports your argument

    moreover, the law does differentiate between public and private
    a gun safe isn't considered public, but neither is a suicide at a private home
     
    Dr_Toad likes this.
  22. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    yeah...and it might not

    it might make it worse

    see also: Japan
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,823
    Mod Note

    Enough!

    For goodness sake, if you cannot conduct yourself like an adult, then I will ban you from the discussion. I don't know what your issue has been lately, but your abusiveness, your unwillingness to even engage in a discussion without swearing at people or abusing them has been going on for a while now. It isn't acceptable.
     
    Gawdzilla Sama and Quantum Quack like this.

Share This Page