Courage not cowardice; balls not bluster

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xelor, Apr 23, 2018.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Ok I will back off a little....
    It was barely a riot according to you and yes it would normally be a mere skirmish at best hardly worth reporting however:
    It led to Trumps amazing statements and subsequent back down and then almost immediately the sacking of Bannon from the administration.
    Domestic terrorism was often quoted as a congressional label.
    Certainly a lot more than a bar room brawl and what was witnessed in Charlotteville was involved in this instance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  3. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Millitia, like the 3 percenters believe they are acting courageously in defending the constitution by preparing and threatening civil war. They are empowered by the 2nd amendment to do so ( from their perspective)
    Is their courage misplaced?
     
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    18,534
    Caution:
    Care is needed in response as the key words "3 percenters" will be drawing attention.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  7. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    As it did.

    You two argue the same point from both viewpoints with no apparent concern for what you might have said in a post three pages ago.

    Well, y'all keep right on solving the world's problems, but ever so politely...
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    14,523
    I agree, and that's what would probably happen. Which means you have a "right to violence" too.

    But I bet you don't live in fear of someone coming up to you and hitting you in the face as you sat in that cafe. Even though people have a right to do so. People in the US mostly feel the same way.
     
  9. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    On that point, I always try to sit with my back to the wall and facing the door.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Their notion of being empowered by the 2nd Amendment is badly confused - but others, such as you, share that one.

    I can't speak to their courage in general - the ones I've met are commonly timid, afraid of their shadows, in the woods, but that's a certain category of environment. I've seen them carry firearms on canoe portages in the Boundary Waters, I've seen them carry firearms when doing botany surveys on the Nebraska prairie, I've seen them refuse to walk an Itasca Headwaters Park tourist groomed winter trail under a full moon without a flashlight in hand continually shining into the trees and a nine millimeter in a shoulder holster. But lots of otherwise courageous people are afraid of wild animals, the shadows under big trees, places they don't know very well.
     
  11. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    But you? Full of ideas and other stuff that you share and have seen, but not done?

    Why not carry in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area? Some of the beaver and pelicans are really scary!

    Good lord...
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    We all have natural rights. For example I have a natural right to plan any act of violence and indeed carry it out if I can avoid being stopped. Natural rights are tied in with self determination and freewill. (psychology -philosophy)
    However enshrining a natural right as a constitutional one is fraught with problems, as society generally is trying to become "civilized" it evolves an "artificial" right to the rule of law.
    That artificial right to the rule of law is there to regulate and govern natural rights.
    We all have a natural right to break the law if we so choose to.

    However to enshrine a natural right to break the law as a constitutional legal right, when a society is trying to regulate itself with the rule of law is a serious contradiction and one that leads to compromising the primary objective of the rule of law.

    Edit : Your post just proves the confusion that is present when discussing natural rights and those conferred artificially. Again there is a natural right to be as violent as you wish...the rule of law, which is an artificial man made right, which is there to solve disputes with out the need for violence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    You don't know the area I live in. The chances of violent assault are quite high. I have been seriously bitten, head butted, and severely shoved a couple of times whilst sitting at this cafe. Mostly by outpatients from the local psych hospital on day release. I have attended court twice to give evidence. One of the regular patrons committed a terrorist (ISIL) act nearby stabbing two detectives and shot to death by police. (2014)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Endeavour_Hills_stabbings
    So uhm.... while I understand your point generally, in this case it's not quite valid... ( chuckle)

    I might add the current situation is quiet and as you would expect in a highly diverse multi-cultural setting.

    Do you think it would be better if guns were constitutionally permitted?
    My guess is that we would have a blood bath frequently.
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Nobody ever did that. Certainly not the authors of the US Constitution.
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I have no doubt from my research that the Founding fathers had no idea that the intent of the 2nd would be interpreted the way it is.
    They simply wished to facilitate a defense of their new Republic by making use of civilian militia to do so.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
    The well regulated militia's right to bear arms will not be infringed in the carrying out of that constitutional duty to protect the new Union of States .
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  16. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    The intent was that they wanted the people who might be called as militiamen to be armed and trained in use of firearms.

    That was easy. Try harder the next time you want to deny reality.

    Oh, shit. Never mind...
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    to defend the "free state"... yes?
    Anything else is an interpretive error.
    The natural right for the bearing of arms that are not a part of the well regulated militia devoted to defending the free state can be impinged by law ( as is the case with automatic weapons) with out being in conflict with the 2nd amendment.
     
  18. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Piss off. As if interpretation is your sole prerogative.

    Edit: I guess you won the battle, because I have no more patience for your heaping mounds of stinking, unthinking wisdom. Again.
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    18,534
    to defend the free state ..yes?
    Sheesh! man it is in your constitution plain as day...
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
     
  20. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    18,534
    As I said earlier if the 2nd read with the word "and" instead of the comma then things would be much clearer.
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State and the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
     
  21. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    Not trying to accuse or make any diagnoses here, but that's a common, almost characteristic behaviour in people suffering from PTSD. Society can't function properly with that level of paranoia in the general populace.

    You know, there's a first time for everything...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  22. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    I seem to remember having already posted this.
    So, at the risk of reiterative redundancy, I will "say" it again.

    Guns ain't got nothing to do with courage.
    Courage is a matter of overcoming your fears(of getting hurt) and doing that which is best to do at the moment.
    Guns are just a tool. Like any other tool, they create a potential to do more faster and more efficiently.
    Compare a table saw to a hand operated electric saw to a hand operated saw to a stone axe--- just evolving tools.
    The tools don't matter. What matters is being able to act in the moment.
    Mastery of the tools can make that more efficient.
    But they ain't the key ingredient. They are just tools. It is the mind of the user of those tools that is the key ingredient.
    "chance favors a prepared mind"
    old phrase often used
    If you have a prepared mind, then the moment where action is needed will favor that mind.
    If you are under attack, and you ain't dead, than you have options. Exercising the best option is usually in your best interest.
    Choose wisely grasshopper.
     
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  23. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    2,527
    Yes, sir.

    That's why I sit with my back to the wall. Not proudly stupid in a world that will bite you in the ass if you don't think teeth are real.
     

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