Counterproposal: Don't dress like a slut...

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by visceral_instinct, May 22, 2008.

  1. sniffy Banned Banned

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    Yes Gustav!

    Tell that to the dead jocks and cheer leaders at Columbine.

    Even popularity has it's price.

    Do you get it? Yet?
     
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  3. sniffy Banned Banned

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    So ok if she'd worn higher heels and someone else had been the smallest and someone else had been raped in her place would it have had an impact on the overall statistics of (unreported) rape?

    And, which you haven't yet answered, why wasn't anyone else raped that night?

    OMG THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN BUT WE'D NEVER KNOW IT!

    So aside from taking precautions (and by not behaving like a victim - technically speaking yet another precaution, eh gutsy/gusty). What can we do to....

    Oh you get the drift.....?
     
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  5. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    so you're assuming he's a rapist cos he looked mean? or what?

    as for do i get it - no. could you spell it clearly for me? just be concise. cos i can't identify any argument. just stories. and 'popularity has its price'. if you're saying that there's a balance between taking precautions and enjoying life - no shit.

    is the relevance of the jocks and cheerleaders that they were killed for being jocks and cheerleaders? isn't 'carry a gun' still a (relatively) effective precaution though, regardless of your attributes/persona?
     
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  7. sniffy Banned Banned

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    Oh by the way cod are you advocating the wearing of high heels as a way of lowering a woman's chance of being raped? My gran as I said in my post was wearing standard issue army shoes. Flat lace ups.


    /smirk
     
  8. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    how do you know there was another woman there who met the requirements of a rapist? rapists don't have quotas to fill, its ridiculous how this is suggested so often.
     
  9. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    no, i think the way in which any attire/attributes affect your chance to get raped depends on the rapist/situation etc.

    you were suggesting that the added height from the heels would stop her being so short, which you identified as one of the rapist's motivations to rape her in particular.
     
  10. sniffy Banned Banned

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    Well lets see. I paid him his taxi fare. But he didn't unlock the doors of the taxi and let me out. He hissed things at me in a really menacing way whilst looking me up and down so I don't know. Was he a rapist? I sure felt intimidated and threatened for 20 minutes of my life which isn't a long time but hey that 20 minutes sure can have an impact. And fuck what if he'd come crawling back to the vicinity of my house? Cos you see I didn't have a boyfriend to protect me. ha ha ha. I made that up in my desperation to get away out of that fucking taxi. And supposing I'd had a gun and supposing I'd killed him? Right there and then? Do you suppose the prosecutor might say the exact thing you just said;

    "What just because you looked mean you thought he was a rapist and you killed him?"

    Out of interest has carrying a gun had any impact whatsoever on rape/sexual violence statistics in the US? And has any rape victim been killed with their own gun?

    BTW I live in the UK and we isn't allowed to carry guns. We can take all the precautions we wants to though. And many of us do; religiously.

    Now then, anybody? Whilst taking lots of precautions to reduce our own personal chance of being raped, what can we do to....oh brother!
     
  11. sniffy Banned Banned

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    No on the night, as all the NAAFI employees were, wearing standard issue shoes as part of their uniform. They were all wearing similar shoes; flat lace ups. I was suggesting, somewhat ironically, that had she been wearing a pair of high heels she might not have been selected.

    sorry to make you repeat yourself but:

    no, i think the way in which any attire/attributes affect your chance to get raped depends on the rapist/situation etc.

    Life is truly, a bitch, isn't it?
     
  12. sniffy Banned Banned

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    ha ha ha she was the shortest woman

    Now you see why focussing on the clothing argument is such a dodgy one?

    How do you know he was a rapist already? You don't.

    Maybe he was an opportunist who became a rapist on that particular night when all the right factors were in place. We'll never know if he'd done it before or if he did it again. But he himself took quite a risk, that of being caught. But then there was a war going on; he was a long way from home; he'd been watching people dancing; having a blast. Who would have blamed him?

    Cost:benefit analysis?

    Doesn't it play on the emotions?

    Now then. How can we as a society or as individuals reduce the frequency and impact of sexual violence and rape?

    "Mom, are we there yet?"
     
  13. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    I don't live in fear, far from it. Hell, I'm a bit of a 'live fast die young' type.

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    I was just pointing out that it is really not fair to accuse women who are fearful of having an agenda or being man haters, etc. It's easy, and natural, to be fearful when you're less than 60kg.
     
  14. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Did you also read this part of my post

    Meaning, watching yourself around men who know you in case they get the wrong ideas. Thanks for your concern, but my visceral instinct works fine.

    I meant 20 of you as in 20 women.
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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  16. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    I do understand where people are coming from when they point out that assaults are going down, not up, but your average person doesn't think like that. If a woman hears that someone has been assaulted, she's not going to compute some statistics in her head and think 'Oh well, it's not common, the crime rate's actually going down, no need to worry then'.
     
  17. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    firstly, i wish you'd stop with the stupidity. all the 'hahaha's and one liners which finish your posts are severely lacking wit and humour.

    i agree that clothes are not the only factors in determining who to rape. that's why i said attire and attributes. attributes like height.

    "Maybe he was an opportunist who became a rapist on that particular night when all the right factors were in place" sounds like a good reason to take precautions.

    I never suggested that you should shoot the taxi driver for looking mean. i suggested you should carry a gun so if someone tries to rape you you can shoot them, and implied you're an idiot for building up the taxi story, when all that happened is a taxi driver looked creepy and drove you where you asked to go.

    As individuals, take precautions. you say 'oh i took precautions', yeah and then got into a locked car with what you thought was a deranged taxi driver. the precautions you did take made little to no difference to your life, your agenda was having fun/doing what you want more than avoiding rape. which is fine, its exactly what i'd be doing, i just wouldn't turn around and say 'well precautions never work'.

    as for society, we need better parenting, education and psychological care to prevent fucked up kids becoming fucked up adults. we need better policing, maybe better lighting, better self defense skills amongst innocent people, better understanding of risks. we need better vaginal bear traps.

    you're saying she was wearing the same shoes as the other girls, therefore clothes mean nothing. maybe the flat shoes turned him on. maybe they turned him off. maybe he didn't even notice them. the point is there's a scale of effect, her shoes also would have affected her height, whether she appeared fashionable, or wealthy/poor. i've heard 'judge a man by his shoes' before.

    had your gran not danced, she most likely wouldn't have been raped. that is the precaution which i would have recommended.
     
  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Is that really realistic?

    In the context of NAAFI? In the middle of a war? Do you understand the impact of the implications of that "precaution"? Here, try this: "I'm sorry. I cannot support the troops tonight because they might rape me."

    With the result: "Good evening, soldiers. I'm sorry there are no ladies here to talk to or dance with tonight, but enough of you are dangerous to the sanctity of their persons that it seemed a reasonable and prudent precaution for them to simply not attend. Meantime, keep up the good work, and let's hear a round of applause for Joe Jazz and the Swinging Seven!"
     
  19. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    sniffy said she wasn't allowed to dance with the soldiers. wonder why. if she had said "im worried i'll be raped" would you pressure her into doing it? "what the hell, that woman's not dancing. SHE'S A FUCKING NAZI!' *gunfire*
     
  20. sniffy Banned Banned

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    codanblad

    In the UK people are not 'allowed' to carry guns. The crims do of course but I'm not going to argue for legalising weapons so that we can go around causing even more carnage. Guns are irrelevant. I got into a taxi; you know I wasn't walking home alone; as a precautionary measure.

    When I got to my destination I realised when the guy turned around to take my money that he was 'on something'. His behaviour then confirmed it. He didn't unlock the door as is normal when the fare has been paid. He kept it locked and proceeded to rant and hiss at me whilst looking me up and down in a lascivious way even though I was dressed 'none provocatively' and hadn't spoken to him for the entire journey; you know as a precaution. At any moment, you know if Ida provoked him he could have driven me to some waste ground and well. I've gone over that in my mind a few times I can tell you.

    So I suppose you would have sat in that taxi whistling dixie, feeling none too bothered? Silly me for feeling somewhat afraid. You know frozen with fear. And ironically that's probably what saved me. Had I gone down another route; you know the precautionary one I might not still be here today.

    Gran didn't dance with the men. She danced with her female friends. She was there because it was her job to be there. Entertaining the allies remember? I was using her as an example from the past 'when things were better because there were no feminazis about' to illustrate that actually things have changed very little. In a room full of gentlemen there only needs to be one that isn't to single out a victim who is behaving almost exactly like as everyone else in the room. I don't actually know what motivated him. He probably mentioned the dancing to lull his victim into a false sense of security. I do know that my gran was a very small woman.

    The ha ha ha's well they are ironic too aren't they? You know 'sandy vaginas', you and gustav and funny little style smirk smirk. And 'randybland' Having a blast weren't you? ha ha ha he he he.

    Statistics are all well and good and terribly scientific but behind each one is a person whose life has been shattered. It's not funny at all. Excuse me for getting a little emotional.
     
  21. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    i've had enough of this crap, peace out.
     
  22. sniffy Banned Banned

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    Well you asked for it!

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  23. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    i never asked for crap, you just decided to bring it
     

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