could this work (peer review?)

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by Bishadi, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745

    so if i have 1000 amps at 1.22 volts, i am out; no matter what?

    no matter the catalyst within the water?


    There is absolutely no way to do electrolysis on water with less than 1.23 volts.


    and then

    1.23 is the theoretical minimum


    which is it?
     
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  3. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,221
    Correct. A catalyst can lower it down to as little as 1.23 volts, but not lower than that. I believe the best catalysts currently available can get down to 1.27 volts, so they are quite close to being theoretically perfect catalysts (at least in terms of the voltage necessary to perform electrolysis).
    Both. Since 1.23 is the theoretical minimum to electrolysize water into H2 and O2, there is no way to do electrolysis with less than that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2009
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  5. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,890
    Didn't say it was, only that it was the schematic of the device as it was found in the ground.

    It doesn't matter what they called it, the same rules apply.

    All of this is speculation based around an at best dubious interpretation of a carving.


    You are wrong.

    Not my idea, I didn't author any of the conclusions about these jars.

    As long as they don't seal the copper cylinder, the way it was sealed in the jars that were found, sure.

    This is the basic point that you keep dodging, that on the face of it destroys your argument - the Iron component was encased in a copper sleeve, that copper sleeve had a copper cap, and was soldered, and then sealed with bitumen, completely isolating the iron from anything in the jar. BUT, in order to work as a battery, the Iron and the Copper both need to be in contact with the electrolyte.

    If it's not possible to use it as a battery, as it was found, then it's not possible to use it to generate light.


    Yes, lots of people have posited the idea.
     
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  7. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,890
    Am I assuming that organic papyri decays to leave a slightly acidic organic residue?

    Perhaps you have some evidence that Papyri decays to leave a basic residue?
    An inorganic residue?
    Or no residue?
    :/

    No. From what (little) I have been able to gather, it's more than just shape.


    Experimental evidence gathered from fundametally different devices.
    Bitumen does not conduct electricity.
    Nor is it permeable to aqueous solutions.


    No residual of vinegar or grape juice was found either, just what was characterized as a 'slightly acidic organic residue', which paper can leave behind when it rots.

    Irrelevant.
    Different culture.
    Different period.
    There's evidence to suggest the jars they were found in weren't the jars they were originally placed in.
    And yes, the dead sea scrolls did rot some, some parts of the scripts are inelligeble because of it.

    Have you?

    Do you read and understand English at all?
     
  8. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745

    great....

    so then at .9 volts each, 2 baghdad's could work.

    glad we got that straight!

    thanx
     
  9. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745
    oh.... i see the issue...

    you think the drawing is a schematic (after the built item)

    where-as to me, a schematic would be what a designer offers to "build from"

    oooops! I guess working in aerospace screwed me up with observing the term 'schematic' as to me there is a 'tense' issue involve.

    hey i can electrolyze water and make light, but perfection is not a trait of mine

    NOPE!

    The tangible evidence; the batteries and carvings, coupled with no solution

    as well i and anyone can see a whole bunch of folks creating a potential the 'old fashion way'

    i came up with an idea on a usable frame that could work

    so far, not a one answer recieved suggests it ain't possible (we peer reviewing, eh guys?)

    it happens

    but i am quite confident more that 3 have been found.

    if not, please show me something that says; ONLY 'x' have been found; the world over.

    do you know how they soldered it?


    add the fluid electrolyte and them parts would be 'in contact'.... right?

    kind of like what anyone can do?

    two different facts......

    as one, the batteries can be used, in basic form, not as found to produce electric potential; so half is OK

    the second aspect is with 2 ......... .9's ... there is enough to produce electrolysis, which i don't care what anyone says, can be burned if isolated and combined correctly

    so the possibility is far greater for the 'yes' it is possible, then your opinion; so far!


    show me ONE where electrolysis was mentioned and the burning of hydrogen

    just ONE please, that is not from me! (giggle giggle)
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2009
  10. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745
    so assuming is not going to be used

    i am not assuming, i am presenting and idea

    the assumption i make is, they were not put together as an accident

    i assume, that one day folks can understand what they were

    so i had an idea and presented it

    as well nothing yet presented can contradict the 'possibility'
     
  11. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,221
    Correct. However, I suspect you would need a vast field of them in order to generate hydrogen fast enough to actually keep a hydrogen lamp producing a useful amount of light. Like I said before, it's not that it would be impossible, I just don't think it would have been feasible given the feeble current that these things would produce.
     
  12. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,890
    Quite aside from the fact that I made it quite clear right from the start what I meant?

    You mean aside from the fact that one of the electrodes was isolated from the electrolyte?

    You came up with an idea, i'll give you that much.

    I didn't say that only three had been found, I only said that only a few had been found, certainly not the thousands you were claiming.

    With a fire I imagine - solders can have melting points as low as 90.

    Solder was used for making stained glass windows, the glass was soldered using a piece of copper heated in the church brazier.

    According to this http://www.weldinghistory.org/whistoryfolder/brazing/bh_pre1900s.html brazing was discovered as early as 4000 BC (brazing being related to soldering).

    Sure.
    Remove the copper segment from the bitumen, fill it with vinegar, then reaffix it. But doing that significantly diminishes your stored charge, and the rest of the electrolyte outside the copper cylinder is superfluous.

    No, because your speculation requires the assumption that the ones that were found were somehow, and for some reason, different from the ones that were used.

    Let's take a moment to think about the current requirements shall we?
     
  13. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,890
    An idea with implicit assumptions that contradicts the known (observed) facts.
     
  14. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745

    so you have the same reservation i had; the quantity of H/O released

    that is what i was wondering if the bitumen offered a sort of capacitor or even add an additional catalyctic property, that 'we all' are not aware of ...just yet!

    thanks for the input and being fair
     
  15. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745
    and you said the idea was not unique and others already came up with the idea

    can you share that?

    do you know, what the soldering was and the material of the portion you pointed out? (on the batteries)

    fair bet

    so my point would be, is there something about the configuration, perhaps our current understanding does not have listed. (eg.... no one really knows what they were used for, but that does not mean, they were put together by accident; so 'we the people' do have some trial and error to do;

    so we can learn rather than just push it aside. (eg..no phenomenon, should be pushed aside)

    the only requirement i see, is to experiment

    anyone in a school surroundings with a cool lab professor?

    jump on this one!
     
  16. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745

    i assumed they were not put together by accident

    i assume, that perhaps the carvings had rendered the usage but no one of today's knowledge understands, how the system works.


    the only contradiction i see, is that the base configuration is different, than what is used in today's models of batteries; does not mean, the configuration makes the usage impossible as a fact

    it means, 'we the people' just don't know............... yet!

    what i find so interesting is, if the potential is great enough; electrolysis could offer light from water

    that part is a fact!
     

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