Could the law be broken?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Frank88maurice, Sep 14, 2016.

  1. Frank88maurice Registered Member

    Messages:
    1
    Hello all!
    recently I have been doing some research about gravity and I came across this forum which is awesome

    anyways, I ll keep short.
    as well all know we are all subject to gravity, if is whether pulling us down or pushing us down.. who knows
    but could we ever understand it well enough to be able to defy it?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,199
    Defy it how?

    I mean, we could say that we have defied it already by launching rockets and space shuttles, with humans in it and off Earth, defying the Earth's gravity in that way. Planes fly in the sky using powerful and sometimes not so powerful engines to stay afloat. We have launched unmanned spacecraft, using the Earth's gravity to escape it and head towards distant planets and beyond. Could that be seen as defying it? Or is that just changing the gravitational force of one body for another?

    So what do you mean by defy it? When you consider that gravity helps shape the universe itself in some way, shape or form, is that what you are talking about defying?
     
    ajanta and sideshowbob like this.
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,993
    Gravity is neither pulling us down nor pushing us down. Gravity is the warping of space. Gravity can be modeled as an attractive force between 2 bodies as Newton showed.

    Here is the wiki site on gravity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
    cosmictraveler likes this.
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    That makes no sense. Understanding it means we understand how it works and therefore understand that it cannot be violated. It is only when we DON'T understand a law of the universe that our understanding can be violated (which is to say, corrected).
     
    ajanta likes this.
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,640
    I've been known to make obscene gestures behind its back, does that count?
     
  9. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    Using your graph on an other post were Gravity decreases with distance . How come Gravitational forces are not even on the surface in the earth , and to some extent gravitational forces are on average larger on the polar region ?
     
  10. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,022
    Physical "laws" are not like judicial laws. They don't prescribe what we can and can not do. They describe our understanding of what is. Our understanding can change, so the laws can be updated, but they can not be "defied" or "broken".
     
  11. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,618
    From TimoJin Post # 6
    Gravity is stronger at the Poles because the Earth is not a sphere: It is an oblate spheroid, fatter at the equator. At Poles you are closer to the center.

    There are other lessor differences in gravitational effects due to other factors.

    At the top of Everest & other mountains, you are farther from the center.

    I think there are lessor differences due to non uniformity in density. ​

    Not sure if there are other reasons for differences in gravitational forces.
     
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,237
    I believe the bulk of non-uniformity comes from internal density variations. On Earth and other rocky bodies, they can map subsurface intrusions of dense materials by their effect on surveying satellites.

    Moon:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,237
    Gravity is a field.

    That means there is a value associated with every one of an infinitude of points in space. It may be a small value at some points, but every point in space - the observable universe and beyond - is subject to gravity.

    We "defy" it by moving against it - every time we raise our arm, or fly in the air.
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,642
    Maybe you mean: could we ever control it? For example, turn it on or off at will, or change its direction at will.

    Who knows? Maybe.
     
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,524
    Is this accurate?
    "At the quantum scale, gravity can be seen to arise from geometric permutations of the quantum field."
     
  16. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    443
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,642
    It's hard to tell, without any context.
     
  18. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,640
  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,524
    It's a quote I got from bucky fuller leading into his design concepts.
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,642
    It's not specific enough to be very helpful.
     
  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,524
    OK found more:

    Omnitriangulated geodesic spheres consisting exclusively of three-way interacting great circles are realizations of gravitational field patterns. The gravitational field will ultimately be disclosed as ultra high-frequency tensegrity geodesic spheres. Nothing else.
    R. Buckminster Fuller

    As we have come to understand the geometry of gravity in recent Unified Physics breakthroughs, including “Quantum Gravity and the Holographic Mass” by Nassim Haramein, we see that Buckminster Fuller may have been exactly accurate. At the quantum scale, gravity can be seen to arise from geometric permutations of the quantum field. The “architecture” of the quantum field must be in extremely high equilibrium, suggesting a tetrahedral packing mechanism, which Buckminster Fuller often described as the “building blocks of the Universe.”

    from:
    http://academy.resonance.is/buckminster-fullers-insights-on-quantum-gravity/

    and?
     
  22. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,662
    Gravity certainly involves attractive forces between masses in proximity.

    Gravity seems to be an example of a so-called 'law of physics'. I think that concept is more problematic than people typically acknowledge.

    Do natural "laws" really exist? (Or is the idea an analogy with the edicts of ancient kings perhaps, inflated into the universal and unviolable edicts of a supposed 'God'?) Do these "laws" hold true universally and necessarily? How can human beings ever know that?

    Given those doubts, I don't have a whole lot of problem imagining that there may be as-yet unknown ways to violate any of the so-called 'laws of physics'. Which means that theoretical physics' supposed 'proofs' that this and that is 'impossible' are only as strong as the initial premises that went in, which is typically the assumption of a law in mathematical form.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  23. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,624
    The concept of "laws" in science is a purely man-made term for the way things seem to be. It is worth noting that most of these laws are named after the person who first formulated them. They are called "laws" because they seem to be universally applicable, so far as we can tell, or largely so. In fact many "laws" have been shown to be broken or bent under various circumstances. So one should not get unduly hung up on the term "law". It has no absolute meaning in science.

    The way I would put it is that "laws" are man-made articulations of aspects of the order we observe in nature. It is the order that is fundamental: the laws are just our way of capturing and expressing it.
     

Share This Page