Cosmological Red Shift

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by The God, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I did not attach or stick the ends of the photon there. That was just an eample of a photon with that length. Photons do have some length.

    A "solitary photon" woul have about the same number of each, perhaps one less positve going peak than the number of wavelengths, but it is more complex than that simple POV as every photon, considered in this classical sense has a distribution of wave lengths. Do some Fourier anaysis to see this. (Any finite length function does.)
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Before I once again reveal you for what you are, let me answer the question again.......
    With cosmological redshift the wave length is lengthened due to the expanding intervening space.
    Lengthening the wavelength of any single photon needs to be considered in light of the duel nature of light.
    Although it must be said that your inquiry, like your other inquiries, including the one's shifted to the fringes, do not appear genuine in nature and merely a means of pushing your well known agenda.
    And as Russell said when you raised Doppler effect, "The effect works the same. All that is different is the mechanism that creates the relative speed between source and receiver".
    Let me add though after your continued questioning, it seems what you are asking is akin to why did the BB happen....or how did it happen.....or what is gravity, or what causes gravity to exhibit itself when mass/energy warps/curves/twists spacetime.
    The answer of course just as you already know, is that as yet, science/cosmology does not have the answers to those questions.

    This gets back to the usual nitty gritty as to why you keep asking such stuff when you already know. That's easy to answer of course. It's as plain as dog ball's that you are conducting a evangelistic mission to try and discredit cosmology and science by whatever means you can: After all it is the same cosmology and science that has pushed your need to invoke some sort of deity to explain these as yet unanswered questions.
    But like other fervent religious zealots, all that is doing is short circuiting the argument and also what science and the scientific method is doing....ie, keep searching for answers, by experimentations, by further observations, by more testing of our present theories to greater degrees of accuracy and precision as GR has recently further received with the confirmation of BH's and gravitational waves.

    You have had previous threads shifted to pseudoscience due to these same evangelistic efforts by yourself: You ignore all answers, you have no intention of ever accepting any answer that will further negate your mythical creator of all things: All that is evidenced in the next rather bizarre statement by you that I'm just about to comment on.......

    This is around the fourth time you have inferred similar ridiculous scenarios and you have been given the proper answers at least four times: More evidence to prove the sort of evangelistic mission you have undertaken to invalidate science/cosmology where ever you see the need.
    Let's answer again anyway:
    Spacetime expansion is evident over larger scales and distant galaxies: Over smaller scales though such as our local group of galaxies and even further afield to our cluster of galaxies, the mass/energy densities are higher than the intergalactic voids and as such gravity from these higher density regions, overcome the effects of the larger scale expansion.

    And if we look at even smaller scales such as planets, and ourselves, it's the forces that act over shorter ranges such as the EMF and strong and weak nuclear forces that holds things together against this expansion.
    Just more factual observational evidence you chose to conveniently ignore when you imagine it suits this tiresome agenda of yours.
     
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  5. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Are you trying to imply that you do have "much idea" about the subject and that you've learned a lot about it?

    If we're consistently getting the answer wrong by just repeating the mainstrem without truly "understanding" it, perhaps you could reveal the non-mainstream explanation that you think we're obviously missing.
     
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  7. The God Valued Senior Member

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    as far as I know solitary photon has a fixed wavelength if you are analysing it as EM wave, I do not think FT will yield any other multipliers....may be you would like to put in more info on this.

    What do you mean by 'Photons do have some length' ?
     
  8. The God Valued Senior Member

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    why are you supporting something which is factually incorrect ?

    Please understand that doppler redshift and cosmological red shift both are different animals...so what if the effect is same ? Russ watters watered it up...and trying to come out of it.
     
  9. The God Valued Senior Member

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    No. I want to know how things are right ?

    By the way you continue to use 'we"....frequent use of 'we' shows lack of confidence and desire to gain support.....
     
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Your grasp of english is appalling. The effects are the same.....the stretching/lengthening of light.

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  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Evidence shows otherwise.
    Your own continued use of "I" just re-enforces the view that your own fabricated nonsensical ideas are made simply to re-enforce a somewhat shattered fragile ego and will remain forever on a remote science forum, to be lost forever in oblivion.

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  12. expletives deleted Registered Senior Member

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  13. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Hey, you posted the link to the wiki article, not me. There is a reason both are discussed in the same article! Just like in your last thread, it is bizarre that you are trying to make us chase explanations that you've already read in a wiki article!
     
  14. expletives deleted Registered Senior Member

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    I think there is some confusion about the difference between Cosmological Redshift and Doppler Redshift on the part of some responders to The God's question.

    If I understand the current mainstream Standard Cosmological Expanding Spacetime model correctly, objects are moving along with the spacetime they are imbedded in, so any emission process produces a wavelength/frequency which leaves the emitting process source at a frequency determined by that process as if it was 'absolutely stationary', ie, not moving in any direction respective to the spacetime it is imbedded in, and also by its position in a gravity well and the strength of that well there.

    Yes, I know that Special Relativity says motion is only relative to other frames of reference; but it is the image of a static source respective to spacetime itself I want to convey for the purposes of illustrating the moving along with the spacetime part of the Standard Cosmological Expanding spacetime scenario; because, if I understood it correctly, that part implies that no actual Doppler type shift component normally due to relative separation in spacetime is involved in the Cosmological Redshifting process.

    Then we have the Expanding Spacetime itself, which the model requires that some mechanism (unknown?) not only causes spacetime itself to interact with the photon as such, but also cumulatively attenuates ('stretches') the photon during long duration interaction with that expanding spacetime over very long travel distances.

    Then a receiver's operational frequency according to its gravity well position and the strength of that well, and the relative speed of separation between the distant source and the receiver, according to their respective motion through (NB: not with) spacetime; and so the 'spacetime stretched' photon may be reflected or absorbed, depending on whether the detector frequency, as determined by those factors just mentioned, will by chance match the incoming photon frequency or not.



    The God:
    That is my understanding so far of the current mainstream model essentials regarding expanding spacetime stretching of photon. I hope my explanation of the essentials involved made sense to you. Please note well that The Standard Cosmological Theory has not yet identified or explained the actual mechanism and process by which Einstein's Expanding spacetime can interact with and attenuate a photon's wavelength. Until that happens, none can answer your question as asked in your OP. I hope that at least my explanation of what I understand is involved according to the standard model has helped to distinguish the difference between cosmological and doppler redshift processes and their different component contribution to the redshift perceived on detection by a receiver extremely remote from source, both of which are moving iI]with[/i] and through spacetime. Has this helped at all?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
  15. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    But The God isn't interested in mainstream models or explanations, right The God?
     
  16. expletives deleted Registered Senior Member

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    Daecon:


    Sorry if I seem thick today, but I don't understand the animosity over The God's straightforward OP question regarding that aspect of Mainstream Cosmological Expanding Spacetime Theory as it pertains to the "how" of "photon stretching" by travel through expanding spacetime.

    I took no umbrage at The God asking his question, so why should anyone? He wanted to know the how, I explained the possible confusions and then directly answered his OP question via that bold passage in my closing paragraph: to the effect that the Standard Cosmological expanding spacetime theory provides no identification or explanation of the mechanics or process by which expanding spacetime can 'stretch' a photon's wavelength. And therefore none here can satisfy his curiosity on that score.

    May I ask (innocently, I don't want to get in the middle of a flame war between others) why the animosity shown to The God for asking to have his curiosity satisfied (if possible) as to the matter his OP asked about?
     
  17. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Check The God's other threads, he's developed quite a reputation for dismissing answers and claiming people are just parroting the mainstream concensus without understanding it.
     
  18. expletives deleted Registered Senior Member

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    Daecon:


    If that is so, then I can understand your animosity. Having said that, however, regarding that "just parroting the mainstream consensus without understanding it" aspect: in all fairness, I read at least a couple of responses to the OP which seemed effectively to fall under that description; which is what prompted me to begin my own response by first explaining the different aspects and components involved which some seemed to conflate confusingly in their responses to The God. Did you read my post? Has it helped clarify the difference between the Doppler redshift mechanism and process, and the still unidentified and unexplained Cosmological redshift mechanism and process? Anyway, that's all I could say on the OP question and its related aspects. I hope it did help some at least a little bit.
     
  19. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    I think we all hope that.

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  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    No, no confusion at all by anyone except our usual divine one.
    That's nice....and he has also been told that also.

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    Our friend the divine has an obvious problem: Most on this forum recognise that.
     
  21. The God Valued Senior Member

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    ED,

    Basically the problem with few posters here is that they pretend they know everything, but the reality is far away from that.

    Shocking part is these mainstream proponents do not even understand what the mainstream stand is...their knowledge is limited only upto popscience.

    This poster who messed up this doppler and cosmological red shift claimed to know some proof in some other thread, but he is not coming forward when confronted. Simple answer...he is bluffing like that 'PHD' in cosmology.

    None of these over enthusiasts like Paddo, Russ Watters, Origin, Daecon here could answer the OP, how a solitary photon can be stretched by spacetime expansion...they kept on repeating the parrotised mainstream line and continued pretentions.........The truth is they don't know, they just know that mainstream says so and the surprising part is nowhere mainstream says that photon gets stretched in a way understood by these guys. This stretching is all popscience to feed such followers of mainstream...The actual mathematical derivation is entirely different. A photon is not some kind of a tied membrane that it wil stretch if the hinges are expanded.

    Superficial shallow understanding, with due respect to few knowledgeable pposters, semi literate followers of mainstream are trolling here on this forum. And no efforts to learn.
     
  22. The God Valued Senior Member

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    No problem at all.

    Infact I am here to remove some of the problems which are plaguing this forum. A nice place being trolled by semi literates in the name of mainstream supporters...
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Whatever my friend: The point is that you are making no difference to academia and mainstream science at all: You are confined on a tiny sliver of cyber space, sprouting your emotionally driven nonsense, which no one is taking notice of.
    Obviously the only outlet you and the real semi literates have to spread your god driven tripe.
     
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