Consciousness after "death"

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Kellisness, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    It could, possibly. But how do you verify that it's "enlightenment" rather than delusion?

    I think courts, among others, would disagree with that. How one interprets something is subject to a number of variables: and doesn't always conform to the facts.

    Huh? I suppose so. If it could be shown that there's any basis to those claims.

    None of that makes sense to me.

    Really? Any evidence? As far as I'm aware the scientific view is that this is NOT the case.
     
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  3. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    Still seeking validation are we. I only seek validation where beliefs are implied, this does not affect the results the reason an aspect of delusion is implied. LOL A delusional state can only apply to individuals. Do you wish to admit you are delusional on this matter?

    It's called evolution by a stretch of the imagination. The matter in our bodies is no different than that which controls consciousness. It is still there even if we refuse to look in its direction or have to actually pick up a book to unlock the secret potentials of such authors. To feel how they feel, see how they see, or hear how they hear. We each reach a different understanding of the people we read about by both our own moral standpoint and our intelligence.

    If you can humor any delusion are you better or worse than the person you perceive as delusional.
     
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  5. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    How do you distinguish between belief and fact?

    That would be incorrect.

    In other words: no you don't have evidence.

    I don't know. I suppose it might matter if I were bothered about being"better" or "worse" than someone else.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
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  7. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    How certain are you that two people share the same delusion if they have but one word for a slightly different experience. People can not share the "exact" same delusion unless they are in a shared dream. By saying delusion is not individual, you have to embrace the idea of a shared dream. After death it is only another more extreme version of this realization. In fact it is a common belief not only by those who follow any religion (even If they would not admit the "exact" words to express such an idea.)

    Each day I die, Each day I am reborn. Each day I tell my life to myself. Each day I enjoy conversation. Each day I recite my life as if every past action was for or against some moral obligation. Justify every action every day and still have time for play.

    but you are bothered... This need for validation hinders your minds potential to humor any delusion. You may think yourself "good" at that but why not strive to reach better. Would any other option bear a fruit quite as sweet as bearing nothing as a "need".
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Because they make similar claims.

    That would be false.
    For example: atheists, Protestants, Catholics, Muslims.
    All claim to have the truth but they can't all be exactly right. Therefore at least one group is suffering from a delusion (false shared belief).

    What is? After death you're dead.

    Nope.

    Nope, again. I can entertain a delusion, but I'm not going spend any time or portion of my life on it unless it can be validated in some way.

    "Better" by whose standards?
     
  9. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    What individual reason mentioned in any atheist, Protestant, Catholic, or Muslim "faith" prevents an individual from believing the one of the oldest latin phrases "mens sana in corpore sano" as if we loose nothing after death. I see you vision of the "afterlife" as broken by the very laws you will stand by during your life, but how have you justified your death I wonder... All this talk of sanity and consciousness as if the two can be separated from an individual in any act except death.

    What part of the repetitive intellectual thought reemerging throughout history makes it appear false? What mechanism makes consciousness suddenly "disappear" in your mind? We have shown to bring people near death back to life, but the only way I could substantiate this is if I had been reborn possibly once or twice in my current living act of consciousness.

    Feels so good to die every night knowing in the morning I could be someone else for the next day.

    Who says we die if the information involved within consciousness "lives" in our environment. Carries foreword to serve a different purpose.



    Not even if it were validated long before you were born, but could not possibly reach a level of intelligence to understand how. Can you understand the why without the exact specific how in other words?

    What If a strange book were written, that could only be understood "perfectly" by the same form of consciousness?

    by an original atheist's standards I suppose.
     
  10. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    The only thing that keeps you away from seeing your dead loved "relatives" is the thoughts of why you loved them from coming to the surface of your memories. Is this a pleasant thought?

    Counterintuitive- an imaginary thought for an imaginary object. obviously consciousness is the imaginary object, but if your relatives are "thought" and you "think" do they not live in a place closer than you think? Are they not thought itself.
     
  11. glaucon tending tangentially Registered Senior Member

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    The only thing??

    Being alive or dead has no bearing on the issue?

    ... interesting...
     
  12. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    What did all that have to do with my point?
    And it seems apparent that sanity and consciousness DO separate (in some people) before death.

    Huh?

    Yes. And?

    Are you somehow confusing "sleep" with "death"? Are you somehow under the impression that you're not still you upon waking?

    And a strawman. Who says (and how do they show) that the information does "live in our environment"?

    I'm assuming this means something to you. but it doesn't to me. Sorry.

    What if there were?

    Meaningless.
    And I've already said:
    I suppose it might matter if I were bothered about being"better" or "worse" than someone else.
     
  13. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    evidence.

    If I subconsciously tricked my mind into thinking like a different person. Studied their consciousness into a deep level I would be them for that day instead of myself. This is a little harder to gain a grip over than a simple analogy between the similarities of sleep which is individual and death which is collective.

    If I meet someone I do not worry if I will ever encounter their presence again. I already know I will. This is a very useful tool to have for the psyche and confidence level of any first impression. But I already know for a fact we will agree to disagree on this issue, unless the status quo is changed by you.

    Well Thomas Edison... you build an object that has the potential to store a conscious mind. The only validation I give is that which your mind can manifest on this specific topic.

    Go back and think on that which you do not understand, it all comprises the same message.


    Precisely

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    as consciousness itself is a form of thought and a thought implies an object. Which object, which person, or which experience is the topic of consciousness. Quite cyclic. You are what you think. The Ultimate placebo. LOL
     
  14. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    What evidence?

    Right.
    And that's been demonstrated how many times?

    No, you believe you will. That's not knowing.

    Ah right. The usual cry. I've had a great idea! Now all I need is someone to design it, build it and make it work.

    And a number of ignored questions...
     
  15. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    Your yet to present any information that stands for your point concerning the "Death of the consciousness" as opposed to the death of the body..

    Many times tried but I "Strongly believe" this is the third(=. There are alot of loonies that think they are the Son of God. It didn't stop with Manson you know... You ever heard of the Insane Clown Posse? Now the Jugalo following they have actually worship them as dieties.

    Why not it is a definite that our relatives have met in the past. If I met the same relatives in the future the past would have changed, but the same truth would still hold.

    Who said I would reveal all my secrets to someone as cantankerous as yourself. Maybe I will wait my whole life just to tell of something ingrained beneath my being since birth and through rebirth. I will wait for someone with the patience for understanding.
     
  16. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    You mean you want evidence that consciousness dies when the body does?
    Doesn't work like that. It's an inference from the fact that we have no evidence to indicate the contrary.

    Evidence that that's what you achieved? Or did you just talk yourself into acting a role?

    Far enough back yes. But my "relatives" weren't me.

    truth? My relatives aren't me, nor are yours you.

    Oh dear. More projection.

    Or maybe someone more gullible, perhaps.
     
  17. glaucon tending tangentially Registered Senior Member

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    You don't see the contradiction here???

    If you are what you think (which, we know is incorrect.. but..) then if you're dead, there's no thinking.

    ergo....
     
  18. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    both are beliefs under the premise of this conversation. The question is (since you missed it) : If we were to apply this type of logic of "Becoming Who You Are" would we be more or less likely to share our thoughts both as individuals and historians?

    Irrelevant if there is a role that needs to be played in society. I don't "feel" the way you "feel". I don't see the way you "see". I am capable of believing from this point on two underlying premises can be observed in nature. One in which we have to show remorse for our lost loved ones, or one in which we share their thoughts after death. One in which we idol "ourselves" from the pinnacle, or one in which we see how the past lets us express who we are truly psychologically like. One in which we hide our differences, or one that shows them only to those who are observant enough to notice strength and weakness. One in which the delete button is pressed by God, or one in which has no delete button to press. One in which you die, or one in which you live.

    Because I blur the lines between any two relatives.
     
  19. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    but all the objects involved with what we know as "consciousness" don't cease to exist. We know they have to be present and accounted for "somewhere" even if we don't know where or how to capture them.
     
  20. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Huh?

    Share our thoughts? In what sense?

    Is it not?
    Acting as if you were someone else is NOT "becoming" someone else.

    Reality and fantasy?
     
  21. glaucon tending tangentially Registered Senior Member

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    Unsubstantiated silliness...

    ibid
     
  22. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    What If no person yet had the proof to say no energy is created or destroyed, would you be capable of saying for certain their is no consciousness after death?
     
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    What's that got to do with it?
    There is no evidence for "consciousness after death".
     

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