Congratulations SpaceX

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by billvon, May 25, 2012.

  1. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Your the clueless one. Japanese HTV (HTV: 3 times to ISS as part of resupply of Kibo), Space X dragon (3 assisted with Canadarm2 module), and Cygnus (ZERO flights to ISS) had been to ISS six times at best. The real heavy load of station upkeeping is done by automated androgynous free-flying Progress modules of Energia and ATV of ESA. So SpaceX "remarkable" failure right next to the ISS is hardly a success, however you paint it in patriotic colors. They failed their Orbcomm payload mission too...
    Had it not been for Canadarm2 module, the entire thing would have became flying space junk))))
     
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  3. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    If only you had read my post to Rhaedes before you replied, then maybe you wouldn't look so silly.

    Sadly, I was in the process of correcting that minor oversight on my own behalf when you replied. Too bad for you.

    The point remains, however, that Dragon was never meant to be docked automatically, and was always scheduled to be berthed using Canadarm2 on this mission - which is why I called you clueless. All of the information you put out in that post is still wrong.
     
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  5. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    My mistake, it is the DragonRider version that is being developed along with the NASA Docking System that will have autonomous ability to dock, not the current Dragon capsule.
     
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  7. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Before the capture by Canadarm2 there has to be done ACS thruster corrections, if the propulsion thruster fail abruptly like that it may have disastrous consequences.
     
  8. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Unfortunately I'm posting from a mobile device. My workplace firewall blocks sciforums as a "legal risk website". Unfortunately, there's something a little quirky between my phone and this site that means I can not simply just go back and edit a post. I have to make a seperate post with the correction in it (which I was in the process of doing when your eyes replied)
     
  9. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    That's probably why they didn't proceed before the thrusters were tested as working.
     
  10. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Same risk posed by failure of the thrusters in any docking maneuver, however one of the key points to understand is that in this instance the Dragon capsule was nowhere near the ISS when the thrusters failed, and it was parked in orbit until the problem was resolved.

    The second point to understand is what actually failed in the pods. The pods use a hypergolic mixture. That mixture is seperated in two tanks. One of those tanks - the Oxidant tank, wasn't pressurizing properly - they failed to initialize, which prevented the panels from deploying.. If a repeat failure had occure on approach, one would expect that the telemetry would show a drop in oxidant tank pressure every time the thrusters fired. One would expect the flight technicians to pick up on this, and presumably use the remaining pressure to abort in some way. Alternatively, they have a known fix that could have been deployed to try and correct the problem.
     
  11. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    That's precisely the reason why - as I recall the protocol for docking Dragon requires at least three of the four thruster pods to be working before docking can occur.

    And I just realized. Your eyes was responding to my reply to you, which just makes his response seem even more bizzare.
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    A robot spacecraft launched from Canaveral carrying over a ton of supplies for the ISS, which it successfully delivered. If that's your definition of "failure" you're going to be pretty disappointed by every technological achievement Mankind has come up with.

    Some other famous failures:

    Apollo 11, where Armstrong couldn't even land the LEM on target

    The breaking of the sound barrier in the X-1, where Yeager couldn't even use the aircraft's elevator to control pitch as he broke the sound barrier - and then landed 1/4 mile off target

    The Freedom-7 flight, where the automatic attitude control system failed and John Glenn ran out of fuel before the parachutes deployed, leaving the capsule completely out of control for the last portion of re-entry

    Miserable failures one and all, eh? It's hilarious that people actually thought they were significant . . .
     
  13. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    Kind of like the old saying, any landing that you can walk away from is a good one. Success can be measured in different ways. Even that lost satellite in the last launch, the company said that they still got some good data from it, and that also teaches a lesson about being a secondary payload on a mission going to the ISS with its low tolerances for adjustments.
     
  14. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Dear Billvon,

    I know of your "unbound limitless love" for me

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    but let us focus on this commercial space mission and the faults within, not on the random prospects of the US in space industry)))
    * Clogged pressurization valves/blockage in oxidizer pressurization due to debris in propellant lines
    * ACS partial failure requiring helium blowout to clear free of debris
    * Failed to bring payload Orbcomm satellite into correct ephemeris position (TOTAL FAILURE)
     
  15. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    well yeah with that respect they should have sent a block of iron to the ISS orbit and claimed mission was just as successful)
     
  16. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    Tell that to OrbComm.

    SpaceX and Orbcomm Inc. have agreed to new contract terms for the launch of 18 data communications satellites beginning in mid-2013

    Ah, but it's their money they want to waste.

    Interestingly, I didn't realize that the Falcon 1 is possibly being discontinued. Not worth the effort since more money is in larger capacity maybe? And of course a lot more redundancy in the F9.
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Yep. Result - successful mission and a big chunk of cash from NASA for the delivery of supplies to the ISS. Most companies in the world are going to love those kinds of "failures."

    "let us focus on this commercial space mission and the faults within, not on the random prospects of the US in space industry"
     
  18. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Non-impact docking (via robotic arm) is WAY safer then impact docking mechanism, mir had a Progress crash into it in fact! Impact docking requires both spacecraft and station are in a collision course and that a dock mechanism absorbs the impact forces! Using The robotic arm for Dragon and HTV allows the crafts to be on an approach orbit that bring them within a few meters of the station but not directly impacting course, if there was a total failure of the propulsion systems they would be less likely to collide then a spacecraft that relies on an impact docking system.

    Also a review of the flight can be found here: http://spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/005/status.html

    SpaceX is our last best hope for manned space travel in our life times, its its not a likely hope at that, I give them credit for how far they have gotten, farther then their competitors, even NASA at potentially having human spaceflight capably returned to the US manifest.
     
  19. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Their agreement was made before this mission commenced. And Orbcomm has insured their satellite...so not that big of a problem, I guess. Well Falcon 1 started with 570 kg to LEO and now Falcon Heavy with 53,000kg to LEO, so obviously they made the first one just as prototype for testing.
     
  20. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

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    It's just science fiction of course, but I recall that even the Enterprise of Star Trek would normally use the tractor beam to pull their shuttle craft into the cargo bay. It really does make more sense for the main structure to control that final approach.
     
  21. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Tell that to guys at Orbital developing Cygnus...
     
  22. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    That's all nice an all, but the arm is used heavily on ISS to move panels around for solar array, assemble new structures like Kibo, and even have astronauts get a piggyback ride around...so if you want a real solution to the problem, they should probably utilize ion propulsion on board of Dragon S/C for fine tuning ACS approach to ISS. And Dragon should use freeflying androgynous docking mechanism.
     
  23. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    It's just common sense.
     

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