Depends on whom you ask http://www.soas.ac.uk/events/event50247.html http://us.macmillan.com/israeliapartheid
I think a comparison with an ongoing Kristallnacht is a better comparison. And the whole walling in Gaza and then bombing attacking it compares with the Warsaw Ghetto. I don't see Holocaust levels yet at all. But 'never again' and 'notice the warning signs' both should apply here, also.
If someone is even capable of raising the comparison at all, it should make israelis/jewish ashamed of themselves. You'd imagine that a people who suffered as much as they did would be the first to make sure nothing such would happen again, let alone be the ones causing it to happen.
Imagine that there was a country in the Middle East where walls were built around a jewish community, a community that was then attacked by a vastly superior military force. And that these attacks were said to be a response to violence by these jews, despite that each year it is more jews who are killed in the conflict and in this case the response kills many, many more jews than the violence that supposedly led to this attack on a walled in community. That in this country Jews were discriminated against based on race and religion. That jews were put under curfews and treated differently at checkpoints. And that these jews had earlier been removed from their lands. Imagine what the Jewish community would be saying about that.
You just described Nazi Germany. Those points have nothing to do with Palestine. Israel massacred 1,000 Lebanese civilians for the capture of 3 Israeli soldiers who had trespassed on Lebanese territory. Neglecting even the fact that thousands of Palestinians and Lebanese rot in Israeli prisons. Furthermore, the invasion and destruction of Gaza was completely unwarranted. If any country can be compared to Nazi Germany, it is Israel.
Well from a sociological stand point their are parallels between nazi germany and Israel in the mentality which the use to justify their acts against their victims.
Anyone have a list of the things the Germans allowed into the Warsaw ghetto? And if the Jews managed to smuggle them in through the sewers? http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1086045.html
Yes, it's invalid to compare Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to the Holocaust. The Nazis attempted to kill virtually all of the Jews they could get under their control, limited only by logistics and their own corruption. (Each Nazi official had his own favorite Jewish art dealer, musician, etc., whom he protected.) I can't find the exact statistics but I think it's reasonably accurate to say that they killed roughly half of the world's Jewish population. Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, their culture and their homeland is deplorable and uncivilized, but it is not at the level of the Holocaust. They could easily kill all of the Palestinians under their control, yet they have in fact killed--what?--a couple of a percent. This is disgusting but it's not a Holocaust, a word which implies extinction or at least attempted extinction. It's no worse than a really awful war. Our Civil War killed three percent of our population. If you want to find another historical event that comes closer to qualifying as a Holocaust, how about my people's treatment of the Native Americans? Or better yet, go back a couple of centuries earlier to the Christian armies' deliberate obliteration of the Inca and Aztec civilizations, with population reduction estimated as high as 90%. That's a better job than Hitler did on the world's Jews. The pictures are a good comparison, but I'd have to see more of his lecture notes to decide whether in aggregate his lessons are too hyperbolic for a university-age student body to evaluate. It is definitely fair (and obligatory if you ask me) to compare Israel's actions to those of the Nazis at the start of their pogrom. They were treating Jews in an uncivilized fashion but they stopped short of trying to exterminate them. But to compare Israel's actions to the Holocaust--which came several years later--is hyperbolic and invalid. It wasn't until the start of WWII that the Germans felt they could finally pursue the Final Solution in "the fog of war." This is why the Holocaust victims are often lumped in with the death toll of WWII: the Holocaust was a byproduct of the war. Captured Nazi government documents made it clear that they believed that even a victorious Third Reich could not get away with genocide in peacetime, and so the job had to be completed before the war was over. Many Americans, especially those of us with some Jewish "blood" who can afford to speak out, give Jewish spokesmen a lot of leeway--perhaps a little too much--when they criticize Israel, because it is SOOOO politically incorrect to do that today. This professor is wrong, but somebody has to draw attention to Israel's abuses and exaggeration is a good way to attract attention. As Jon Stewart, one of America's most respected TV personalities (and "full-blooded" Jewish) said into the camera, "Why do you never hear criticism of Israel in America except on my show?" To sum up, he can be forgiven for being hyperbolic, but I'll let the academic authorities decide whether he can be forgiven in their little ecclesiastical environment. I certainly would not allow this hyperbolic comparison on SciForums without a whole lot of qualifying discussion, such as this one. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Apparently there are rules at sciforums due to which this comparison is "inappropriate language" unlike say, the comparison of Iran to Nazi Germany.
An interesting interview with Norman Finkelstein, who was denied tenure due to his criticism of Israel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqT6uKxz_eQ
It would appear that Muhammad instigated the first Jewish genocide: http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/quraiza.html
This whole discussion is obscene. Responding to these cynical and anti-Semetic comparisons would be dignifying it and elevating it to the level of legitimate discussion, and that point of view (it isn't really a point of view though, is it -- only a cynical attempt to further Jewish suffering and spit on the survivors and the victims' memory) to a legitimate one, and encouraging it further. Q and others, don't bother with it. You'll only be contributing to the above, plus you won't change anybody's mind who even dares to say something like that.
Ah yes, ofcourse, leave out the fact that when the Muslims at Medina were defending the city against the Meccan army, that tribe tried to take advantage and attack the Muslims from the back. Leave out the fact they provided the Meccans with details of the tactics. Leave out the fact they constantly broke treaties and betrayed the Muslims to the Meccans. And also leave out the fact that they chose to be judged by a friend of theirs who judged them according to their own book, the Torah, regarding betrayal and high treason.
This event took place before Mecca allowed the Muslims back in. A lot of people bring this up, without acknowledging that the Meccans were continously attacking the Muslims, attacking their caravans and besieging them. as it turned out, that tribe was helping the Meccans and betrayed the Muslims on a number of occasions.
actually the Israelis behavior is comparable to the Nazis treatment of some peoples. Denying that and claiming only antisemites are doing it is in fact bigotry.
Quite right. It trivializes the actions of the Nazis and the efforts and deaths of everyone, including Germans, that fought to end their reign.
