cold fusion reactor announced by italian physicists

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by DRZion, Jan 24, 2011.

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  1. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    And open it up to find a hamster running round in a wheel.
     
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  3. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    And I'd give you 1,000:1 odds that they take the money but delivery of the "device" is delayed (due to some flimsy excuse).

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  5. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    Im not really familiar with the concept of cold fusion. In terms of a high school senior, what is cold fusion.
     
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  7. dbnp48 Q.E.D. Registered Senior Member

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  8. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    thanks
     
  9. oladitan Registered Senior Member

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    Really?

    If there cold fusion, where are the flying cars?
     
  10. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    The "Mr. Fusion" kit that powered the Delorean on beer cans and banana peels probably wasn't meant to be an example of cold fusion.
    It was more like a hot fusion variety converting any mater put into it to pure energy.

    These flying cars were supposed to be on the market ten years ago.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElS9BKSsezw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7UyspBr0-8&NR=1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9fc3-7VOk&feature=related

    It seems Moller ran into some financial snags, but there's still four years left...

    Do we really do we want flying cars? Just imagine a bunch of soccer moms fighting for parking spaces at the mall.
    Trying to do triple axis calculations of virtual space, in their heads, while texting...
    We are all safer on the ground.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
  11. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    In that case, you wouldn't get your patent. Your application would be rejected for failing to disclose how to build your invention.

    If you can prove that you invented it first, then someone else can't get a patent on it (in the US, anyway). As soon as they self-published their results, the whole thing basically became unpatentable for anyone else.

    Normally the patent office just assumes that your invention works as claimed, even if the inventor doesn't know how or why it works. But for a claim as incredible as this, the patent office will probably basically demand proof and then reject it as non-working when the inventor can't supply it.
     
  12. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Nasor: Only patents for perpetual motion devices require a working model. It is a widely believed myth that a patent is an indication that a device functions as claimed by the inventor. A cold fusion patent claiming self sustaining energy production might fall into the perpetual motion category, but any competent patent attorney would avoid wording causing this to happen.

    Circa 1960, I was asked to accompany an attorney to Brooklyn to appraise an energy producing methodology which was claimed to to have incredible commercial potential. The attorney was representing two wealthy clients who was considering investing. The clients was impressed with the fact that the inventors had a patent.

    Due to my father (a very competent engineer), I knew that a patent was not an indication that the patent office considered a device to be functional as claimed by the inventor. Also do to my father, I was aware that the existence of a patent was often used for scam purposes.

    The so called inventors were definitely scam artists, although their Rube Goldberg contraptions were not obviously flawed. I was paid for my time by the attorney. Many months later, one client sent me a nice bonus when he discovered that the other client did not take my advice & lost quite a bit of investment money.

    BTW: Contrary to common beliefs, there are many wealthy men willing to pay for services rendered even if not legally obligated to do so. He had initially taken my advice with a nagging suspicion that perhaps he had lost out on a good investment opportunity.

    As stated in a previous post to this (& other cold fusion threads), I consider cold fusion advocates to be either charlatans or fools. The more recent the advocacy, the more likely that charlatan is the the correct assesment.

    BTW: Prior to 1900, there were hundreds (or more) patents for perpetual motion devices. Due to the large number of existing patents, it took a lot of time & effort to determine if a current patent application infringed on an existing patent. The patent office appealed to congress to provide legislation requiring a working model for perpetual motion machines.
     
  13. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Read-Only:You are likely to lose the bet.
    While I do not expect the contraption to work, I think that the Cold Fusion advocates actually sell a Cold Fusion experimental kit.

    The kit vendors are surely scam artists. I do not think that Pons/Fleischman sold such kits, but might have been trying to get research funds.
     
  14. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    I have no doubt that, as someone already mentioned, all the cold-fusion promoters fall into one of two distinct groups: The scam artists and the deluded. Also, the people trying to secure research funds fall into one (or both) of those groups as well. Honest researchers want money just as the dishonest do.
     
  15. Keln Registered Member

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    Yeah, this sounds even more sketchy than the past announcements of cold fusion break-throughs that could never be repeated by other scientists, with an addendum of being made available to the public for only $19.95, and if you act now you will get a second cold fusion reactor for freee!

    Seriously, from what I have read, these guys claim it is made from simple, easy to get stuff and will be on the market within a few years. And they don't know how it works.

    Your question is valid though...what if as a researcher you do stumble on something amazing, that you can repeat and offers amazing results...but cannot explain? Journals have standards, and if you can't meet those standards, well you cannot expect them to publish you anyway.

    If I were to find a method of "cold fusion" as these scientists have claimed to have done, personally I wouldn't bother even announcing it. I would refine whatever process it is, get a patent, sell the idea or make a company to manufacture it, and rake in the dough. Once I had the money flowing in, I would publish on how it works, because at that point you own the technology for sure, and journals would be begging for a paper on it, as it would be a proven fact by then.

    But, of course, this will just turn out to be bogus anyway. If not, I would happily eat crow.
     
  16. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    Under US law an invention is required to actually work in order for it to receive a patent. So while of course a patent is not 100% proof that an invention would work as claimed, it indicates that the invention at least seemed plausible to the examiner who decided whether or not to issue the patent. Also, the applicant is required to know (or at least have strong evidence to suspect) that the invention actually works as claimed at the time of their application; you aren't allowed to apply for patents on speculative inventions that you haven't actually investigated or worked the kinks out of yet. If you do apply before you know that your invention works, then your patent could be taken away, even if your invention is later proven to work.

    Since by their very nature inventions often involve surprising new discoveries or unexpected results, and since an applicant isn't required to actually have any idea how or why their own invention works, the patent office is willing to consider any evidence that an inventor wishes to supply to support his assertion that his invention works. But if the inventor is asserting something that flies in the face of established scientific theory, as is the case with cold fusion, the patent office would be very unlikely to issue a patent without rock-solid proof that the device functions as claimed.

    As for working prototypes, the patent office can demand a prototype of any invention that's filed with them, not just perpetual motion machines. This is virtually never done, however. No one at the patent office wants to waste their time carefully investigating some nut's potentially-dangerous collection of parts that he believes constitutes a teleporter, or cold fusion generator, or faster-than-light communications device, or whatever.
    Muon-catalyzed fusion allows fusion to happen at liquid helium temperatures - very cold fusion indeed! Although I would want to see pretty solid evidence to support any claims of cold fusion, I wouldn't just dismiss them out of hand. There's nothing theoretically impossible about cold fusion (like there is with perpetual motion), it's just a major engineering challenge. After all, fusion catalysts do exist which allow fusion to take place at very low temperatures. It doesn't seem impossible to me that someone could use them to find a way to produce a net energy output.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2011
  17. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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  18. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    They are out recapturing the flying pigs.
    I'm still waiting for x-ray spectacles to be perfected.
     
  19. Keln Registered Member

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    They've been selling them in the back of magazines since I was a kid.
     
  20. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    They never arrived in the UK.
    Apparently if you look at your hand you can see the bones, and as for ladies.........
     
  21. Keln Registered Member

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    Yup, you can see the bones in a lady's hands too.
     
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