# cloning

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by grimmice, Feb 27, 2001.

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## what do you think about cloning

8 vote(s)
34.8%

4 vote(s)
17.4%

6 vote(s)
26.1%

5 vote(s)
21.7%
1. ### grimmiceRegistered Member

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how far will cloning take us?
will it be the gateway to regeneration of lost limbs?
is it a crime against nature?
it can easily be one of man's greatest or worst advancement's to date.
wich road we choose is up to us.

3. ### Neujmin1Registered Member

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3
With the advances in technology, cloning may not prove to be all that effective for replacing body parts. Maybe arms or legs, but it will be amazing to see how effecient an artificial/mechanical (just to name an example) liver may be versus an organic one.

5. ### caligulaRegistered Member

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There is some considerable difference between what is publically acknowledged about the development status of human cloning and the contemporary achievements of Clinics in both USA and Europe.

Consider , the price of body parts and organs sourced mostly from two 3rd world areas are now affordable to the upper income levels of developed countries rather than solely the perquisite of the very affluent - and this has been within the last ten years.

The principles of Politicians and others of 'high purpose' will naturally be suborned should it be their liver or lungs that need replacement......and this is naturally extended to spouse and progeny.....therefore , as always there are laws and ethics applicable to the rich , the poor and the cognoscenti.

These latter will be by definition the former and have already ' sown the seeds' in private Clinics in anticipation of a need. This has been especially prevalent in Coronary cases where occasionally CABG procedures have been superceded by the more adventurous.

The prices are still reportedly distant. For example , kidneys from say. Pakistan can be obtained for around $25,000US whereas 'grown' renalware is somewhat dearer and together with the rejection therapy STILL required may cost upwards of$40,000USD.

Limbs are becoming passe' now , and there is gossip of advancements being made which will eventually percolate down publically - once prices have stabilised. The recent hand transplants have been received with less fanfare than deserved as the micro work involved is of the highest order.

I believe that 'true worries' should only surface when serious work is done in the cerebral and brainstem areas. One of the most entertaining pieces of fiction about this was the excellent novel by Peter Nieswand called 'Fallback'. The technology is available now!
Regards.............................Caligula

7. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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organs can be grown without rejection

xenotransplantation will (someday) be as efffective as normal organ donation

both organ farms and the even cheaper xenotransplant animal farms will be able to out produce the number of organs stolen from people in 3rd world countrys... there for their prices will be lower and they will have a variaty of organs over just a kidney from some poor smuck in south america.

8. ### John MaceRegistered Senior Member

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101
I been telling my friends for months that I think cloning will be the biggest "non-event" of the century. My only caveat to that is if quite a few human clones are produced with severe genetic and/or physical abnormalities. But then, I think it will self regulate into minor obscurity until the technical problems are ironed out.

For comparison, how big a celebrity is Louise Brown (the first IVF baby)? She probably gets on some news show every 5 years.

Clone-shmone. If there ever are dozens, or better yet, hundreds of more of less healthy cloned humans out there, people will realize that a clone is his/her own person and is not a way for a person to perpetuate his/her own life. (At least not until the Raelians perfect the whole process...)

Identical twins are a real curiousity and it's often freaky how similar in personality they are. But since a clone will generally be 20+ years younger than the cloned individual, the actual clone will hardly be recognized as such.

9. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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gentic determines a good precentage of your personality John. the clone could be more like the origional then you think... though cloning could help finally answer nature vs nuture questions.

10. ### lazybabyRegistered Member

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3

WellCooked..it is extremely difficult to say that most of your personality come from your genetics. As learning and adaptive creatures ,humans change drastically throughout the course of their life. Though I am no expert,but I would gamble that a clone though alike in appearance would vaguely resemble the orginal in personality. It is our experiences that determine who we are, not necessarily our genetics. And though there are things that are inherited like maybe forgetfulness, and even a short temper. Overall life experience itself will determine our personailty.

and yes..it would most definitely answer the that elusive question of nature vs. nurture.

Though in the end and in response to the ultimate question...I have to agree with you about cloning in general. to clone a whole person would be a massive waste of time and money. We should focus on regenrating the parts we need.

Who wants to live forever anyway?

My 2 cents..spend it where ya can

lb

11. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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You obviously have not read any modern studies done on identical twins separated at birth. Genetics determines are basic thought processes, the environment on the other hand adds what we can do with those basics. So a clone will have very similar behavior patterns to its original though the clone may marry a very different person then the original did, may have different political and religious beliefs. The clone and the original will still have the very similar personality; they will still react to stimuli in the same way and like/dislike the same things. It actual very complecate with something being nature and other being nuture like a pro/cons list. this list though is still in the making.

12. ### lazybabyRegistered Member

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3
Please clarify for me these studies you speak of..send a link I would like to see them. As for my personal experience with friends and family members who are twins. They are not so alike. You would be surprised as to how different they really are. I stand by the origianl opinion that experience is the determining factor in personality. We are not talking about whether or not the clone likes broccolli. I am saying though alike genetically, it is pompous to presume that the clone would be so like the orginal. When it is clearly seen everyday in young children that they mimic what they see and learn their attitudes and opinion from their parents. In essence their personality is learned..not programmed.Behavior is a learned......Please forward those links on the case studies of genetically identical twins seperated at brith. I would love to read them.

And so it goes

lb

13. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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http://www.nature.com/dynasearch/app/dynasearch.taf?site_source=ng

look here… good luck I read some but finding them again is like trying to @#\$% a elephant! Hey don’t make searchs as easy as SA but then again Nature is a primary source science magazine and Scientific American is just a notch above Discovery!

your looking at too high a level there, when I said basic thought patterns I mean irritability, how adventures you are, how curious you are, how impulsive you are, emergancy thought pathways such as if you will be dominate, submissive or just plain freak out in a time of crisis... ect. belief, opinions and so forth are controlled by environment… sadly there is no gene that makes you a republican though if there where it would also make you
gullible and ignorant too.

Last edited: Dec 30, 2002
14. ### John MaceRegistered Senior Member

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Yes, our current understanding is that genetics plays a large part in determining our behaviour. But, the clone will be LESS similar to the "parent" than are identical twins raised together, since the environment will be less similar. But so what? Children already inherit genetic predispositions from their parents. We are only talking about matters of degree.

Here's a thougt, though, on a different tack. Suppose someone rumages thru Halley Barry's garbage and digs out some of her hair (follicle attached). They then proceed to clone her from the recovered DNA. Do we have any laws on the books to prevent that? As much as I'd like to have my very own Halley Barry, the thought of surreptitous cloning is kind of scary.

15. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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we don't have any laws prevent girls form stealing their boyfriends uuuuh "stuff" and selling it at some clinic do we?

16. ### spookzBannedBanned

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Last edited: Dec 31, 2002
17. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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thx spookz I tryed searching on google but got fed up quickly what did you put in the search box?

18. ### spookzBannedBanned

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6,390
fascinating!

simple theft
now my dna belongs to me. the same goes for my liver, kidneys.... if i am incapacitated the "ownership" goes to the next of kin. i think current law could be interpreted to include genetic material. so this is the first charge?

but what if the thief picks my hair of a chair in a restaurent? finders keepers?

illicit use/harvest of body parts!!
using dna without owners permission. obviously not on the books,
but in the same way a kidney cannot be transplanted without my say so, current law..............second charge?

a clone of course is still a human being so one is gonna have to come to terms with the unauthorized copy

19. ### Avatarsmoking revolverValued Senior Member

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I think that human cloning is a rude outdated method
nanotechnology is (ok will be) a lot better

20. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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you mean biorobitics?

21. ### Avatarsmoking revolverValued Senior Member

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small not biological robots (nanites*) going by your body and configuting everithing as programmed

*Nanites are microscopic
robots programmed to operate within the body to various ends.

Last edited: Dec 31, 2002
22. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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naw why not biological robots: it a much more easily achievable technology... heck thats the feild I dream of going into!

*biorobots are robots made of biological components and program via DNA... basically cells with their entire gnome synthesized off of a computer.

23. ### Avatarsmoking revolverValued Senior Member

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I dream of nanotechnology
it's a lot more reliable and configurable and programmable real time accordind to various situations

how will you order a bio robot to stop one work from cleaning your blood ways to going and destroying a virus?