Clever Car -- the future of automobiles

Yes, you would get more passenger capacity with the Chevy Aveo than with the Clever Car. But you would get the same advantage driving a minivan.

Regardless of the time span, by sacrificing passenger capacity the Clever Car will consume

- 46 percent less fuel than the Honda Insight (hybrid subcompact)
- 64 percent less fuel than the Chevy Aveo (subcompact)
- 74 percent less fuel than the Chrysler Sebring (full-size sedan)
- 77 percent less fuel than the Chevy Equinox (SUV)
- 84 percent less fuel than the Ford F150 (2-door standard pickup truck)

The price of the Clever Car is comparable to existing autos. It does have a passenger seat which doubles as a cargo space. You can drive it year-round in a variety of weather conditions. If a future incarnation of the Clever Car were flex-fuelled instead of CNG-fuelled, and the government mandated a 30% ethanol-in-gasoline mixture as a minimum, and 100% ethanol availability at the pumps, we could as a nation have a fully-renewable and sustainable transportation sector.

 

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For all your talk about how favorably the clever car compares to regular cars, you still don't seem to want to acknowledge the fact that it would take most drivers around three years to merely break even on the price of a clever car as compared to a cheap regular car.

My wife and I go to the grocery store together and come back with several bags of groceries. This is the sort of normal behavior that would be impossible in a clever car.

 

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Only if you pay the full price of the car when you buy it. Alot of people pay monthly instead, and on that basis one can easily argue that the Clever Car is cheaper, and the lower cost is realized from the first month of ownership.

Even if you pay the full price when you buy, remember that the Chevy Aveo is one of the cheapest cars sold in America. I totally acknowledge that, compared to a Chevy Aveo, it would take a few years to break even with the Clever Car. But it WOULD break even. A hybrid would not. And the Clever Car would be cheaper than nearly any other car on the road. It's not a bad deal.

 

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When comparing car prices and cost of increased fuel consumption, has anyone accounted for the incease in amount driven in summer and the summer jump in gas prices? I'm not really sure where to look for averages on that, or if they amount to much.

 

Some info here on fluctuations in gas prices over time. On the graph it's hard to see seasonal variations, although there is a hint at some small regular fluctuation, and long term variations seem to be much more significant. As you can see the price is rising. The graph shows prices all the way back to 1980, in both actual price (nominal) and prices in 2005 dollars (real). By clicking on "Real Petroleum Prices" you will find a downloadable MS Excel workbook file named "petroleumprices.xls" containing a spreadsheet entitled "monthdata". It gives monthly prices for gasoline, diesel, heating oil, and crude oil for Jan-1980 projected through Dec-2007, all given in 2005 dollars. You have to have MS Excel software to view this file, or another spreadsheet program that can import MS Excel files. If you plot a graph of this data over the last few years only you might see a seasonal variation, but you have to do it yourself. I tried it and couldn't tell if the "bumpiness" of the graph is seasonal or not. The bumps seem to be much closer together over the last few years than in previous decades, so it doesn't necessarily indicate a seasonal cause, but it doesn't implicate an other trigger either. Over decade timespans the price varies more significantly.

 

The basic problem is...... Energy = Work.

Even if an engine is 100% efficient, the fuel you are burning only contains so much energy. If you want your gasoline to go further then you have to reduce the amount of WORK needed to move the car from A to B. That is, reducing or eliminating things that make it harder to move. Suppose you have to push the car, using good 'ol muscle power.... The first thing that would make it easier to push would be to make it lighter. It's 10-times easier to push a car that weighs 300 lbs than one that weighs 3000 lbs. The car engine has the same problem, but it can't complain. The car that is easier to push also gets better fuel economy.

 

how 'bout the "clever truck"?

The EPA cited laboratory tests showing that the technology has the potential to dramatically improve the fuel economy of urban vehicles used in applications such as package delivery, shuttle and transit buses and refuse pick-up. The EPA estimated that when manufactured in high volume, the added costs of the hybrid components could be recouped in less than three years through lower fuel and brake maintenance costs.

In the series hydraulic hybrid diesel, a high-efficiency diesel engine is combined with a unique hydraulic propulsion system, replacing the conventional drivetrain and transmission. The vehicle uses hydraulic pumps and hydraulic storage tanks to store energy, similar to what is done with electric motors and batteries in hybrid electric vehicles. Fuel economy is increased in three ways: vehicle braking energy is recovered that normally is wasted; the engine is operated more efficiently; and the engine can be shut off when stopped or decelerating.

The diesel hydraulic hybrid truck is potentially eligible to qualify for a tax credit that is up to 40 percent of the incremental cost of the vehicle under a provision of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 for medium- and heavy-duty vehicles.

 

Hybrids work. That's a proven fact. But high gas prices are needed to make them economical. Either way, you are looking at high cost of gas or high cost of vehicle.

The Clever Car is not a hybrid. It directly increases fuel economy by reducing weight. The car costs roughly the same as other cars, but uses a tiny fraction of the fuel. Overall costs are lower and it still gets you from A to B in a timely manner, and in a variety of weather conditions.

 

Here in the UK we are seeing an ever increasing number of "gas" stations springing up. I emphasis gas for our colonial friends over the pond as opposed to petroleum

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I was told recently, but have not seen it, of a car now on the road, that changes to electrical drive at low speeds , then when speeds up on motorways etc, changes back to fuel.

 

More data on India's Tata Motors* small, efficient, mainly-urban** use, plastic (no rust / never repaint), durable, 4 wheel, US$2,200 car:

The 100,000 Rupies car is due out by CY 2008, and is by far Tata’s biggest push into the passenger car segment. There will be no competitor at this price point. The compact car will have a 30 bhp engine, and will seat 4-5 people. The target market is the “bottom of the pyramid” - or the lower middle-class to middle class Indian, who is looking to change to a car from a two-wheeler. With India’s burgeoning middle class of over 300 million people, the car has a large market. Its customer is less in cities like Bombay and Calcutta, than the smaller towns and perhaps even villages of India
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*Tata Motors is part of the Tata Group (India's "GE")*** has 65% market share of all trucks sold in India and also exports. TTM contributes approx 20% of Tata Group profits.

**Top speed on level ground is approximately 60 mph according to prior, unofficial reports.

***As GM is on its way to bankrupcy, it would be an insult to call TTM "India's GM."

 

Seems you were right. This car will be manufactured in kit form in West Bengal and assembled by local businesses throughout India. The low cost is obviously due to the fact that parts are to be made in India. PPP there is roughly 10 percent that of western countries, so a car that costs 1/10th the price is no surprise. Until now cars sold by Tata were made in Brazil and elsewhere, and were extremely expensive for most Indians. Here are some media links for Tata Motors:

Tata Motors plan Rs 1 lakh car

Tata selects Bengal for small car

Tata Motors Press Releases

It will be interesting to see how Tata's Rs 1 lakh car performs compared to the Clever Car. It may be cheap, but what is the fuel economy? India's Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) is purposely only 10 percent of ours because of their export driven economy. But crude oil is still traded in US Dollars. That means a liter of refined "petrol" is sold for about 100 rupees in India ($2.42 per liter Canadian Dollars). Western consumers would be screaming like banshees if we had to pay this much for gasoline. For what fuel price range or miles driven would Tata's small car be the economical choice?

Clever Car is designed to be extremely lightweight and to carry only 1 person most of the time. That is why it's fuel consumption is so low, roughly 110 mpg. Tata Car is being designed to carry four people, so I am assuming that no efforts have been made to reduce its weight below that of a subcompact and therefore it will get the same fuel economy, roughly 30 mpg. This is a huge assumption. And because of the difference in currencies, one must decide which country the car will be driven in:

Case 1: Both cars are sold in India.

First we calculate the zero-down, 48-month purchase financing cost:

Cost of Clever Car = R560,279 = R11672.48/mth
Cost of Tata Car = R100,000 = R2083.33/mth

Fuel cost of Clever Car = (R378.50/gallon)/(110 mpg) = R3.44 per mile.
Fuel cost of Tata Car = (R378.50/gallon)/(30 mpg) = R12.62 per mile.

R11672.48 + A*(R3.44/mile) = R2083.33 + A*(R12.62/mile)
A = 1044.52 miles/mth

For this much driving the two cars cost the same (neglecting insurance & maintenance). If you drive less, the Tata Car will be the more economical choice. Unless you are a mail courier or other delivery person who puts on alot of miles this would probably not be a hard choice. If you drive a set distance, say 500 miles/mth, then the above equation can be reworked. The fuel price at which both cost the same then is R1534.26/gallon, roughly four times what the current price is. It is likely in the foreseeable future that the Tata Car will be the most economical car to drive in India, even compared to the ultra-fuel-efficient Clever Car.

Case 2: Both cars are sold in Canada

Cost of Clever Car = $13,500 Canadian Dollars = $281.25/mth
Cost of Tata Car = R100,000 = $2419.31 Canadian Dollars = $50.40/mth

Fuel cost of Clever Car = ($4.40/gallon)/(110 mpg) = $0.04 per mile.
Fuel cost of Tata Car = ($4.40/gallon)/(30 mpg) = $0.15 per mile.

$50.40 + A*($0.15/mile) = $281.25 + A*($0.04/mile)
A = 2098.64 miles/mth

Again, the Tata Car wins, unless you are on the road all the time, day and night. I'd like to see how the Tata Car stacks up against the Clever Car in other ways, such as safety, styling, comfort. So far no photos are available, no actual performance statistics. And this is a purely economic victory.

Keep in mind that the Tata Car does nothing to reduce fuel consumption. This car would drive oil consumption up globally. It does not achieve a sustainable level of fuel consumption for the North American market. To do so requires at least a 70 percent reduction in fuel consumption, and only the Clever Car does this. The Clever Car wins by achieving 100 percent renewability for the transportation sector. If the price of fuel went up continuously, eventually people in India who drive Tata Cars would respond by driving fewer cars. Car sales would plummet. In Canada, people who drive the Clever Car would avoid this by simply switching to biofuel, consuming a sustainable amount and allowing the same number of cars to remain on the road. Car sales would remain stable.

Interesting stuff!

 

You are not seriously suggesting that Cold Climate Canada, CCC, can produce bio fuel in greater quantity or cheaper than Hot Humid India, HHI, are you?

As HHI is already producing significant quantities of bio-fuels, especailly bio-diesel,* (not compared to their fuel need, but to other global producers, Brazil and US excluded) I will give you 10 to 1 odds HHI beats the "bio-pants" off of CCC. Does CCC produce any?

This from your second ref is worth reproducing here:

" The plant will be spread over an area of 700 acres with additional facilities for a vendor park. The total investment is likely to be over Rs 1,000 crore, including direct investment by Tata Motors as well as investments by its vendors. The plant will initially employ 2,000 people and is expected to create more than 10,000 jobs among vendors and service providers in the vicinity of the plant. Ratan Tata clarified though the number employed would be 10,000, the Tata Motors project would have a far-reaching impact on future investments in West Bengal. He commended the state government on the speed and manner in which the project was arranged. "
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*Tata's car will come in both gas and diesel versions.

 

Biofuel production might compete with food production depending on how it is made. The following stats indicate that Canada has 10-times more arable land per person, so biofuels in Canada are less likely to affect food production than in India.

Canada's arable land area = 411,300 square kilometers
Canada's population = 33,098,932
Canada's per capita arable land = 0.0124 sq.km per person

India's arable land area = 1,464,900 square kilometers
India's population = 1,095,351,995
India's per capita arable land = 0.00134 sq.km per person

 

I also want to announce the invention of the "green car" - it greatly reduces the emmission of greenhouse gases, even more than alcohol fueled cars.

It is simple, but does require some new techonolgy, as it uses carbon dust for fuel. Yes, it is true that the exhaust is pure CO2, but that has a much weaker green house effect than the Di-Hydrogen Mono-Oxide, DHMO, released by all fossil fuel cars and even by those powered by alcohol.

A car that can totally eliminate the release of DHMO would really be a "clever car" because DHMO is released in great quantities by all current cars and the proposed hydrogen-powered fuel-cell car's exhaust is pure DHMO!!!! - How ungreen can you get???

Molecule for molecule, DHMO is about 5 to 10 times worse as a greenhouse gas than CO2. DHMO is especially damaging when released at high altitude, so perhaps the first step to protect the Earth is to convert all planes to graphite fuel. On an energy content per pound it is higher than jet fuel , I think, so there is another reason to switch.

 

Not surprizing. who would want to live in CCC?

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Outdoor ice skaters excepted, of course.

 

"Clever Car". Stupid name. They're so afraid someone might not see how clever they were in inventing this car, they put clever right in the name.

Anyway, what's so clever about it? I had a Geo metro that got about 55 miles to the gallon, would seat five, and had space for cargo! Also, back in ninety-five when I bought it brand new, it only cost about six grand.

 

As a 4-wheeled vehicle, the Geo Metro is about as lightweight as it can be. It is hard to achieve half the weight, and thereby double the fuel economy, of a Geo Metro without switching to a motorcycle configuration. A motorcycle is basically a car with the chassis cut in half lengthwise. And it is stable on two wheels. The Clever Car is aptly named because it is a fully-enclosed vehicle (all-weather) designed like a motorcycle with the tilting that makes them stable while cornering. Unlike a motorcycle, you don't have to put your foot down on the pavement to keep the Clever Car upright.

It's not all *that* clever: vehicle designs like the Clever Car have been around for 60 years. But now, with rising gas prices, the inherent advantages of this design are now apparent (but weren't before).

 

Nice to see that the letters "M" & "G" will not disappear from the front of cars made in the USA when GM goes bankrupt (I doubt that Renault and Nissan can save it in US, because it has been managed so badly by high paid CEO, who are now packing their golden parachutes; but the GM division in China is doing well, so that is probably what Renault and Nissan want.)

I am referring to the news that a Japanese company plans to begin building the old MG in Oklahoma and selling it for about $20,000.

 

Costs as much as a low-end full-size car.

Uses fuel that no one, and I mean no one carries. If the customer could attach a propane cannister to it, it would have a lot more potential as you can exchange those almost anywhere and the fuel costs for propane are competitive.

Being that small it should be an electric hybrid and have a lot better fuel economy. The primary engine for the hybrid should be either flex-fuel in some way or able to use any fuel, period.

No one is going to know how to work on it.

This vehicle does not meet my current needs. It would actually be better off working on gasoline.

 

Right. Well, an interesting historical chart here shows that gas prices have gone up 10 percent in the last couple months. And diesel prices have never been higher.