Citizenship

Is citizenship a given right of every person in a given nation-state, or should citizenship be given as a benefit of service to the state?

Personally I think citizenship should only be granted to those who show a willingness to serve the state in some capacity. Living in the U.S it sadens me to see how this once great nation is turning to garbage. A child born to illegal immigrants is automatically a U.S citizen, I find this very disturbing. I remember in the late 1980's and early 1990's when Mexican's would cross the border in droves so they could have their babys in the U.S. (and still do).

To many people take what they have for granted and see citizenship as a take what you can from the nation-state and run with it, in the process totally disrespecting their fellow citizens and the laws that their nation was founded on. But if citizenship were granted only to those people who show a willingness to sacrafice for the common good and an understanding of what the word "Citizen" means, situations like we see today would and could be avoided.

 

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Citizenship is a way to get more taxes. And it aims to allow all people equal rights within a society. All people are born equal, remember.

 

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I think we should skip the nations and make a global society the benefits humans instead of economy.

 

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People are not born equal, and never have been. That's wishful thinking turned into political doctrine. We are all different.

 

Who saw the movie Starship Bl...eh...Troopers?

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In the real world, we are all different, and some of us can do things others can't. There's not a chance in hell that a paraplaegic person or a blind person could go through the military training I had. Most females failed, because they were physically weaker.

Now, equality is not an inborn quality. It is something we create because we wish it. Now, if a state is to have true and absolute equality, then in situations such as military draft, even blind and paraplaegic people must be eligible for military service, mentally retarded people should be eligible for jury duty, and so on - and obviously that can not happen. "Equality" by law is an arbitrary assignment of abilities and duties, and even if accepted is still far from actually being equal.

The fact is we do not have such equality. Yet here we are all citizens. Some citizens would be, if the draft were instated, eligible for military service, and some would not. Some people now are eligible for jury duty, and some are not. What citizenship means now is that some of us have more responsibility and legal obligation to the state than others, and receive no extra benefits to make up for those increased responsibilites. That is unfair, unequal.

Fair and equal would be a situation in which the state gave equal reward for equal service. The state should not expect me to serve under duress if it refuses to force the same service onto blind and deaf people or quadruplaegics. If the state requires more of me than it does of others, then I should have more rights and privelages than others.

Does this mean we should have separate classes of citizens? We already do. The government subsidises some things and not others, spends extra money per capita on members of minority groups than it does on the general population, and so on.

 

Adam is correct. It traditionally has been the state that has seperated the populace into different classes.

Citizenship should only be granted to those peope who in some way shape or form work towards the benefit of the populace at large. If a person is doing nothing to improve their own life or the lives of others then why should they be granted the rights and priviledges that come with citizenship.

The saying "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" comes to mind. But in todays day and age the oppisite has become the truth of the day, the needs and wants of the few has begun to take priority over the needs and wants of the many.

Bleeding heart liberalism and political weakness have led to this condition. Minority groups and their advocates have wormed there way into government and are corroding it like rust corrodes the paint on your car. Once it starts its nearly impossible to stop unless you take it back to the begining and start all over again.

 

"In the real world, we are all different, and some of us can do things others can't. There's not a chance in hell that a paraplaegic person or a blind person could go through the military training I had. Most females failed, because they were physically weaker."

In the eyes of the law, we are born equal. I left out the law part, my bad.


"Bleeding heart liberalism and political weakness have led to this condition. Minority groups and their advocates have wormed there way into government and are corroding it like rust corrodes the paint on your car."

Amen.

 

How about ...

A two tiered citizenship?

For those who have honorably served in the military:
The right to vote and to bear personal arms.

For all others:
All rights of citizenship other than the above two.

And, with the proviso that conviction of a felony withdraws
the first two rights.

Take care

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what is so good about killing people?

i serve by helping other people

i have never and WILL never join the millatary

but that is beside the point,

If you remove the right to vote from a percentage of the population is an invertation for explotation

Because you can't vote means you have NO power, which means unfair dismissal laws would go for you, unfair laws would be passed, ect

 

Yep, such segregation would require some seriously iron-clad rules to prevent exploitation.

 

no matter what safe guards you try to put inplace it is open to the same sort of exploytation women were before they got the right to vote

 

Without killers, we would all be living under a NAZI rule right now.

 

why do we glorify war tho?

without the nazi solder there would have been no killing in the first place

 

There will always be people who don't want to play nice, and we'll always need killers to protect us from them.

 

It's already begining to happen!

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

if only that could be true....

 

It is true, and so is the fact that all are equal too. Everything else is just holding on to a fading illusion and in pure panic trying to save yourself from awakening from the comforting dream of perceptions too familiar to realize that they have gone bad and need to be thrown out from the refrigerator , they stink!

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But I love you all anyway, it's not your fault that you don't know any better, it's the universe that has constructed you this way.

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Bebelina, those are nice thoughts. But the fact of the matter is that the only reason people think we are all equal is because the law says it, in reality nature says something totally different, we are not all equal.

People who do nothing to improve themselves, their fellow citizens or the state have no right to claim protection from it, all they do is act like parasites. They drain the system of resources until its on the verge of dieing.

The strong shall survive and the weak die off, that is the way of nature, always has been, always will be.

But I agree with the observation that we are moving towards a one world government. We have the EU, NAFTA, and other groups that are for mutual defense.

 

Azrael,

I agree with you but in a different way. Your post implied a nation like Mexico fell behind because people do nothing to improve themselves. That is totally not true I don't even know where to start.

But in general wars and conflicts are mechanisms for humans to benefit ourselves. Without threats we become complacent. War is good.

The only way I would join the military to fight a war is if we fight a real war....like a war to get rid of the stupid Islam for example. That would be a worthy cause to get rid of some pains and sufferings...