christians its not your fault

When your brainwashed the most completly irrational thoughts seem rational. So to you christians its ok that you believe god exists obviously you need that security blanket to go on in life. As a young child i beleived in Santa and God. as a grew older santa lacked rationality so i easily dismissed the idea of santa as credible. I grew a little older and did the same with god. Both ideas are based on the same principles except god is stressed more in ones childhood so it is harder to dismiss. So christians its not your fault that you believe in god, you were simply conditioned to think that way when your mind was a ball of clay.

 

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Thanks for reiterating the ideas i have seen a hundred times on other threads.

problems for you -
1) my experience of christianity. i.e., brainwashed, escaped, rebrainwashed, escaped, returned without the aid of external persuasion on matters of ideology. I was more brainwashed to reject it than to accept any of it during the stage before the current one

2) belief in God is less comfortable for me, at least on the conscious level, than lack of belief. Good luck in your analysis of my subliminal processes, as I am a very complex personality.



yours truly,

a ball of clay

 

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What's that smell? Is something burning?

 

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What is rational and what isn't is really quite subjective. Remove that ball of clay from the garbage.

 

Heretic,

Well you apparantly haven't asked many christians about how they came to faith. I know someone that was an atheist their whole life and then they became a christian at about age 30. Then there are others like me that believed in the childhood lies, thought god was just another lie and then came to faith at age 29. Then I have a wife that says there never was a time when she didn't believe in god.

It looks to me like you've been brainwashed with the stereotyping mindset -- I don't mean that as criticism, I only ask that you try to be a little more open-minded.

 

Cole,

Doubtful. Such a self label belies the simpler explanation – confusion – lack of self understanding.

Yup – confusion. Deliberately choosing to believe as true something that is only an imaginative baseless concept reveals an inability to think clearly

There is nothing that guarantees that truth must be pleasant. Not being comfortable with a choice indicates lack of conviction, and if you are uncomfortable with either choice then that should indicate that you haven’t really decided. I am very comfortable with the fact that death means non-existence, yet that truth is certainly not pleasant.

 

Joey,

Such Christian propagandist humor might work well in a Christian fellowship meet, but otherwise it reveals just another sheep.

 

Southstar,

No, that is not true. Rational thought is based on logic, which in turn is founded on evidence and facts. All religious beliefs lack credible evidence and thus all religion is irrational. This is not opinion but simple conformity to definition.

 

Woody,

But 30 years is clearly not a long life, so the “whole life” claim isn’t particularly impressive.

But I have noticed how Christians love to claim how so many Christians were once atheist in such a way to imply they had really thought through the atheist position and thoroughly rejected it. Whilst in reality they simply had not made up their minds and by default if you don’t hold a positive theist belief then of course they would be atheist.

So really your statement has no meaningful content, but dishonestly tries to infer things that are not true – such is the true nature of Christian propaganda.

At 29 there is still hope for you, but for your wife it looks like the early indoctrination took hold.

But back to the topic – I disagree – it is the “fault” of Christians to believe what they do. While culture and country of birth are the dominant factors, combined with exposure to religious propaganda, it is still possible for the rational person to reject baseless religious fantasies. That they deliberately choose to believe is largely part of the common human sheep mentality that we see in so called Christian countries and Islamic countries – just follow everyone around for a comfortable life. It is just sheer laziness in refusing to think through the issues clearly and independently.

 

woody: what! have you got your silly hat on, that is the biggest load of bullshit I ever seen.
an atheist does not turn to god, he could not have been an atheist, an agnostic maybe. and to be an agnostic, you must have been taught religion in the first place, as a child you are indoctrinated, from the onset. so unless your very lucky, your not being brainwashed.
your wife is more honest than you and she not quite correct.
what your wife said should read, there never was a time she can remember when she didn't believe in god, ( when she was a baby/toddler, she had no believe).
an atheist comes to there knowledge from study( a lot and a long time) it's through sense reason and intellect,that they achieve enlightenment, that is the most open minded you can be.
believing fantasys is a whole different ball game, this is clearly for the delusional.
and incidently, you yourself could not of questioned the existence of god, else you would not have come to your faith.
so I must concur with the heretic, you can not help it, study your bible from cover to cover, dont just read the good bit's or the easy bits, study it.
read other people points of view( pro and con) compere biblical history with ancient history,etc etc and then you will have an informed opinion. else you will know no better.

 

Hi, this is my first post, and I am interested in this forum. I have pretty much decided that it is not your fault that you believe in your religion (i.e. christianity) if you have been taught that your entire life, especially extensively as in many cases. A lot of people raise their children very hardcore christian and the kids really feel that it is true all their lives. I personally lean more towards the idea that it probably isn't true for my own reasons, but I still try to keep an open mind to the possibility that God is real, even though I can't understand how that could be. But anyway, I don't understand the mind, but I do think that it is funny people who are so down to Earth and really understand what we percieve as reality but still believe so strongly in something as fantastical as God and Jesus. I suppose we will never know until we each die.

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welcome sdooter123: question how will we know when we die, we'll be dead.

 

Well what I mean is, when we die, we'll either go into the afterlife or we'll be just plain dead and that's it (which is what I think would probably happen). We'll know God is real if we die and go into heaven or hell, you know?

 

After many years of extensive study and self-study, there are still aspects of life I cannot fully comprehend. You obviously have your simple little self all figured out. If I call you "simple" in the future, don't think that I'm calling you stupid, just not complex. It is much easier to figure out a simple problem with few variables, your mentality (edit - on this subject), would be an excellent example.

Being uncomfortable with a choice may mean that it is an uncomfortable choice that has to be made. There are positives and negatives on both sides. Again, it is a complex process, I don't suppose you would understand, since your awareness is so limited that the whole panoply of existence is able to be broken down into your simple viewpoint.
Also, much to your discredit, you seem to be able to accept your total and complete bias towards the belief you are currently holding. How very unscientific, I'm surprised at your admission. you obviously think a choice should be made once and then all further information should be excluded.

Regarding the above statements - by trying to judge me, you only judge yourself.

 

Cole,

Yet you feel confident enough to claim that you know that a god is behind it all despite the absence of any credible basis. That’s either simple irrationality or just plain confusion.

No, but I’m not claiming to be especially more complex than anyone else. It is not too difficult to see why so many people are mesmerized and captivated by religions. It is not a complex issue.

You are confusing comfort with difficulty. And choosing whether a god exists or not is not a choice that must be made in the absence of a credible basis.

No it isn’t but it could appear that way to anyone who is confused by the issues or someone who is still learning the issues.

The issues in a nutshell –
(1) Do we know that a god exists? The answer is no.
(2) Does a god exist? The answer is that no one knows.

An assertion otherwise is a cause to question the claimant’s rationality, or clarity of thought.

It is very simple logic – there is no need to make it appear any more complex than it is. What “belief” do you think I hold – I haven’t stated one.

Unfounded. No choice need ever be made in the absence of credible evidence.

 

Appeal to definition.

Does that seem logical to you?

No.

 

Southstar,

Why not? Do you want to redefine what is meant by rational then?

 

Does that seem logical to you?

 

Maybe it's just that some people need hard facts, some people don't, and some people take things as facts (or "signs" if you will) that others don't. The rationality of what you take as facts depends on your opinion...did any of that make sense?? What some people may think is rational, others may think it isn't.

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Okay, I'm done.

 

Southstar,

Not sure where you are leading; perhaps you didn’t quite understand what I meant. I’d like to try again.

You suggested that what we deem as rational is a subjective choice and I disagreed.

To be rational is to exercise logical reasoning. Logic is an objective discipline. In logic - through inferences and deductions based on facts and evidence we can draw conclusions that show the truth or fallacy of some assertion. In the context of theism I use the term “irrational” to indicate false logic, i.e. conclusions that are not based on facts/evidence. Hence such conclusions are inherently irrational according to the definitions of logic.

I don’t see this as controversial and I didn’t mean to imply anything beyond this simple fact.