Christianity without devine Jesus?

M

mathman

Valued Senior Member
Is there a sect which calls itself Christian (follow Christian bible) without making Jesus into god?
 
mathman said:
Is there a sect which calls itself Christian (follow Christian bible) without making Jesus into god?
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Probably most of today's Unitarian Universalists. Many Anglicans/Episcopalians, Methodists, ELCA Lutherans etc.

There's a big group of theologically "liberal" Protestants in both the United States and Europe who seem to treat Jesus as some kind of uniquely authoritative sage or philosopher. He might have been uniquely attuned to God, served as God's instrument by channeling God and by doing nothing but God's will, or something like that. But they don't believe that he was literally God.

I expect that many Roman and Orthodox Catholics think of Jesus the same way.
 
Yazata said:
Probably most of today's Unitarian Universalists. Many Anglicans/Episcopalians, Methodists, ELCA Lutherans etc.

There's a big group of theologically "liberal" Protestants in both the United States and Europe who seem to treat Jesus as some kind of uniquely authoritative sage or philosopher. He might have been uniquely attuned to God, served as God's instrument by channeling God and by doing nothing but God's will, or something like that. But they don't believe that he was literally God.

I expect that many Roman and Orthodox Catholics think of Jesus the same way.
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I agree with your point, but what I was trying to find out is there a sect, rather than individuals, which calls itself Christian without the divinity of Jesus.
 
mathman said:
I agree with your point, but what I was trying to find out is there a sect, rather than individuals, which calls itself Christian without the divinity of Jesus.
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You mean Jesus as a secular moral figure, a philosopher?
What would be Jesus' claim to fame, if it wasn't for "divine intervention"?
Secular theology holds that theism has lost credibility as a valid conception of God's nature.[2] It rejects the concept of a personal God and embraces the status of Jesus Christ, Christology and Christian eschatology as Christian mythology without basis in historical events.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_theology
 
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gmilam said:
On the other hand, what hope does a person have to live a Christ-like life if Jesus wasn't 100% human?
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Then he (scripture) should not have claimed to be son of god.

I hope to live at least as moral as any theist, and I'm an atheist. Be careful with assigning morality to any specific belief system. Almost all scriptural religions are exclusive by definition.
 
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Write4U said:
Then he (scripture) should not have claimed to be son of god.

I hope to live at least as moral as any theist, and I'm an atheist. Be careful with assigning morality to any specific belief system. Almost all scriptural religions are exclusive by definition.
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I am under the impression that Jesus did not claim to be the son of god, but that he was the messiah (still expected by religious Jews). Deification, as I understand it, was by later Christians, starting with Paul.
 
mathman said:
I am under the impression that Jesus did not claim to be the son of god, but that he was the messiah (still expected by religious Jews). Deification, as I understand it, was by later Christians, starting with Paul.
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Well, from a quick search;
Response (by a Christian);
Satan is the “prince of the power of the air” (Ephesians 2:2) and “the god of this world” (II Corinthians 4:4). However, Jesus Christ is more powerful than Satan, and so Jesus Christ is truly the lord of creation in the ultimate sense. One day, Christ will physically reclaim the earth as His kingdom.
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http://www.christcreated.com/con/bible/contradictions/lord-world/
 
mathman said:
The books cited were written well after the life of Jesus and after Paul. By then Christians had defied Jesus.
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And that proves anything? Moreover, does it matter who is wrong here?
First, Jesus claimed to be the unique Son of God. As a result, the Jewish leaders tried to kill Him because in "calling God his own Father, [Jesus was] making himself equal with God" (John 5:18 NIV). In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which God revealed Himself to Moses from the burning bush (Exodus 3:14).
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To the Jews this was the epitome of blasphemy, for they knew that in doing so Jesus was clearly claiming to be God. On yet another occasion, Jesus explicitly told the Jews: " 'I and the Father are one.' Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?' 'We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God' " (John 10:30-33).
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https://www.oneplace.com/ministries...-claim-to-be-god-by-hank-hanegraaff-8825.html

Not my words. This is a knowledgeable theist speaking. Is he wrong?
 
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mathman said:
The knowledgeable theist is relying on the Gospel of John, written well after the life of Jesus. We have no way of knowing how accurate it is.
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OK, shall we strike every verse which has doubtful origins from scripture? Won't be much left....
 
sideshowbob said:
A little bit of arrogance makes Him all the more human.
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I agree, that is part of the hubris of daring to compare oneself with a god.

The truth is, humans are closer to ants than to any possible god that may exist out there. No amount of belief can counter that argument.
 
gmilam said:
On the other hand, what hope does a person have to live a Christ-like life if Jesus wasn't 100% human?
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Why are you placing obstacles where there exist none? Hope if one can be a good person without being Christian? What kind of question is that?

Forget Jesus. Ask if one can live a good, moral, productive life without all the trappings of Christianity.

This is the real problem; The exclusivity of religions which claim that without that specific religion one cannot find "salvation" from our bad, bad, human existence.

Stop spreading the guilt around. Just espouse humanism, appriciate our privileged existence and contemplate our inescapable obligations to our host, Earth (Gaia).
 
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Imo Jesus Christ is number 2 in all the Heavens and across the cosmos. No intention to be God at all. Jesus is the son of God.
 
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