Or figures. there were several so called messiahs around at the time and a lot of what was attributed to a Jesus person was from previous religions, anyway. I don't think anybody disputes that there may have been an itinerant Jewish rabbi going around preaching. What anybody with any sense disputes is the biblical magic miracle making zombie Jesus. the former doesn't ask you to suspend belief the latter does.
I don't think God will ever go away. God is the pathway to power and a cure to the deepest of human needs. God is the organizing forces in people's lives. Atheism is not a sustainable belief system. It is more likely that technology will be forgotten and books will turn to dust. . I think the content of religious teachings could change, but people will always have mystical & magical experiences.
In your opinion, and the gullible's. Probably because it isn't a belief system, the complete opposite in fact.
Perhaps atheism is just negative thinking in disguise. But if you think that atheism is all that, than perpetuate it. As a belief, it will be put to the test, as all beliefs are.
Atheism is rather free. It is not a belief- it is a lack of belief. An atheist is not something that you so much are. Rather, it's something you are from a theistic perspective. Ultimately the word only says what you're not, that the term "theist" is not applicable to you. It is a negative label; I don't wish to label myself negatively. Even theists themselves are atheists in regards to other religions, hence the term atheist applies to both, making the term meaningless. The term "Atheism" should no longer be used. If theists wish their beliefs to be known as theism, that's fine. Naturalism or Humanism would be more appropriate terms to use for those who do not begin from the position that gods exist, but instead begin from the position of nature or humans, which apparently do exist. Theists themselves admit to faith as the primary driver of their beliefs, hence their views should be classified as "Ahuman" or "Anatural" since those views elevate the supernatural up onto a pedestal while degrading mankind to that which is scraped off a boot. The term "humanist" suggests that humans should be the focus of the debate, rather than a supernatural sky daddy.
I hear what you're saying as far as "degrading mankind"; I agree with your sentiment that humans should be picked up, dusted off and given a big hug. I prefer to believe in Theosophy, I prefer to believe in Ascended Masters, survival of consciousness and near death experiences. There is enough dark energy, quantum entanglements, and mystery about the laws of physics to allow some of this stuff to exist. I've even entertained the idea that "spirit" exists right under our noses. To tell you the truth, I don't think there is a "white bearded man" called God. Instead, I think that consciousness is infinite and permeates everything in the universe and beyond our universe.
Faith and culture are two different things. Western countries celebrate Christmas does not mean the people are true Christians. Such as in China, there are many temples of Buddhism, many people worship there, but it does not mean they are true Buddhists. Buddhism was assimilated into Chinese culture. Most cathedrals and churches in England are just historical buildings, faith is no longer active there, because today people are educated enough to know that the "stories" in bible are just made up by the authors, not a reliable truth, who really believe in Eternal Life? Unperishable body? Even a galaxy can collapse into a black hole, do you think human body can last forever? Live eternally? Christianity is just bullshit, Empty promises.
Ultimately there is no reality; there are only probabilities. Believe whatever worldview is best for you, and then fight for it. May the best world view win.
So maybe next time use I instead of you so there is no confusion.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
In this case I refer to Saint . He is posting to who ever , and I am one of the who ever , therefore I respond to him In your case you are referring to me I politely responded to you, now the way as I see, you are the confused person that intended to correct me
This is not directed to you since it's a matter of belief. But for the benefit of others I would observe that you may have expressed the psychological rationale for belief in God very candidly here. This attitude reflects the child's need to be loved by a parent. Remove the parent, and the child becomes orphaned. Notice I'm not saying this is childish behavior - we all are children of our parents regardless of physical or emotional age. But we all feel empathy for abandoned children, and - depending on the state of our mental health - fear for ourselves, or the inner or once-child which at some point in life could comprehend the pain of separation or abandonment. I think this need to find an ultimate parent at the dawn of human existence is the deep psychological force that perpetuates religions so long after literacy has made them obsolete. But you also know that there is nothing new or magic about that. People have been teaching peace and compassion throughout history. Besides, for all of the words in the Bible, only a small fraction have much to with compassion. But of course if religious people were really serious about helping others they would spend all of their time doing just that and all religion would vanish from the face of the earth. So what are they actually doing? Worrying about their eternal salvation? Isn't that selfish? Oh I forgot: some selfishness is exempt. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! If that were true there would be no schools, hospitals, orphanages or public services in Tel Aviv, Riyadh, Delhi, or Beijing. There would only be anarchy and looting on the streets as every person took for him or herself. So what's wrong with that picture? Don't you understand that the opposite is true? That we are naturally provided a complex set of tools to work for the survival of the human race? For all of the hope Jesus supposedly brings to the faithful why are Christians so cynical about the natural state of the human mind? What peace of mind is to be gained by casting human beings as selfish and evil? Here the only possible benefit is sanctimony, something to counteract low self-esteem. Better is to shrug off the worst modes of religious thinking and adopt a positive attitude, one which believes in helping others because it is a naturally decent thing to do - not because the primordial parent is telling us to do so under penalty of cruel and unusual punishment. We are free to look out for others because that's our nature. If we're living outside of that nature, then we're in a disordered state of mind. Shit happens. But there are often plenty of ways to fix what's broken. And then there are just some percentage of people who are damaged beyond repair. The idea, then, would be that each functioning human being do what he or she can to minimize further damage. If you notice, Jesus doesn't figure into this at all. This is all just common sense. If we want to reduce the damage, then we need to stop patronizing people, undermining their dignity and laying guilt trips on them. The best thing for reasoning Christians to do, then, is to abandon religion, roll up your (plural) sleeves and start being part of the solution.
Aqueous Id;3104494]This is not directed to you since it's a matter of belief. But for the benefit of others I would observe that you may have expressed the psychological rationale for belief in God very candidly here. This attitude reflects the child's need to be loved by a parent. Remove the parent, and the child becomes orphaned. Notice I'm not saying this is childish behavior - we all are children of our parents regardless of physical or emotional age. But we all feel empathy for abandoned children, and - depending on the state of our mental health - fear for ourselves, or the inner or once-child which at some point in life could comprehend the pain of separation or abandonment. I think this need to find an ultimate parent at the dawn of human existence is the deep psychological force that perpetuates religions so long after literacy has made them obsolete. I like on how you analyzed . Us the believer have our parents even they are far away , we have hopes and a sense of security and can be happy by believing that. You folks at the state in life over ( example) 15 years old become aware and your parents are not away but they are death and you believe you are orphans , you lost your hope . So you live as orphans believing only in yourselves, so you struggle to be happy and find satisfaction in material things ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// But you also know that there is nothing new or magic about that. People have been teaching peace and compassion throughout history. Besides, for all of the words in the Bible, only a small fraction have much to with compassion. But of course if religious people were really serious about helping others they would spend all of their time doing just that and all religion would vanish from the face of the earth. So what are they actually doing? Worrying about their eternal salvation? Isn't that selfish? Oh I forgot: some selfishness is exempt. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Yes, we the week people are struggling for compassion from the strong so that they will not use us to fight their games , Every so often a person rises and cry for justice for all. (I am not sure that person will come out of the elite and powerful,). So what we do , we cry out to God for a Savior , by crying out we join forces of the same spirit and become united, and we can demand compassion and justice from the powerful aristocrat and he will understand our suffering, hopefully he will change, This is how education b of both sides increases and we become more human to each other . //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// If that were true there would be no schools, hospitals, orphanages or public services in Tel Aviv, Riyadh, Delhi, or Beijing. There would only be anarchy and looting on the streets as every person took for him or herself. So what's wrong with that picture? Don't you understand that the opposite is true? That we are naturally provided a complex set of tools to work for the survival of the human race? For all of the hope Jesus supposedly brings to the faithful why are Christians so cynical about the natural state of the human mind? What peace of mind is to be gained by casting human beings as selfish and evil? Here the only possible benefit is sanctimony, something to counteract low self-esteem. Better is to shrug off the worst modes of religious thinking and adopt a positive attitude, one which believes in helping others because it is a naturally decent thing to do - not because the primordial parent is telling us to do so under penalty of cruel and unusual punishment. We are free to look out for others because that's our nature. If we're living outside of that nature, then we're in a disordered state of mind. Shit happens. But there are often plenty of ways to fix what's broken. And then there are just some percentage of people who are damaged beyond repair. The idea, then, would be that each functioning human being do what he or she can to minimize further damage. If you notice, Jesus doesn't figure into this at all. This is all just common sense. If we want to reduce the damage, then we need to stop patronizing people, undermining their dignity and laying guilt trips on them. The best thing for reasoning Christians to do, then, is to abandon religion, roll up your (plural) sleeves and start being part of the solution.[/QUOTE] Let me go back to my scenario Does the powerful feel you pain , education or about your orphans , I don't believe so, He prefers uneducated people or orphans because he can control them, Coming back, we the poor peasant cried out to God and from Him comes our unification of spirit and we try to be compassionate to each other because we know misery. We demand and build schools , hospitals, orphanates and other help. I noticed you saying " Jesus is not part in improving condition " You believe in social evolution so do I. Remember we come a long way evolving socially . One thing that brought the early society was religion , and religion have something to do with God . So the word God is our beginning of social evolution , be it for Jews , Christians , Hinduism , Islam and on .. Now that we are in the modern era we are smart we want exclude the word God , and we want to say we did it , with out God
My point was that a person who never put their trust in a cosmic parent never feels orphaned, not by the evidence that suggests there is no God, and not by the evidence that tells us our parents were apes. There is no connection with people believing in themselves or struggling to be happy - that's as true whether a person is religious or not. I think you're having trouble understanding the thoughts and feeling of atheists. There's no reason to think they are that much different than those of religious people. We just don't think anyone should mess with the teaching of evolution or that the laws religious people want to impose on us should be passed. And we don't worry about the whether we are going to heaven or hell. For that reason we haven't lost any hope. That's not our ambition. Our best hope is to make it through another day with losing a perspective on our own humanity. And fortunately we don't have to rely on some ancient taboos to help us make that determination. Not sure what this has to do with religion vs. atheism. Don't you live in the US? You sound like a person speaking from behind the Iron Curtain. In any case, I'm sure you know there are many atheists who have and will continue to struggle for justice. The point is that equal protection under the law is a civil matter and one that was worked out (at least in principle) during the American Revolution. Obviously it's taken hundreds of years to see it implemented - but today there are very few barriers to social justice that haven't been torn down. Unfortunately the groups that always seem to be interfering with this are the conservative religious groups. Why is that? If people actually believe their faith teaches compassion, why do they stubbornly oppose social programs for the needy? That's another huge factor that turns atheists against the teachings of religion. They seem fraudulent to us. I don't know where you live but all of those places have long existed everywhere I've lived. The only thing I've noticed in recent decades are that there are a lot of day care facilities that are private enterprises. But the main facilities for providing basic services to people are not provided by Christians. They are mostly public facilities and they exist in all of those countries which are not Christian. So your assumption that there can be no compassion without Jesus is incorrect. That's not quite right. We are saying that the evidence for the creation of the universe and of life is that it springs from nature and that nature springs from itself without the magic of a Creator-God. That's the evidence, not some indulgence in self-flattery as you think. It's no different than you sitting in the lab and titrating some preparation according to methods you know to be true and correct because the experience of evidence to guide you. No one trying to take credit for anything in atheism as you think. All we are saying is: here is the evidence. The rules of the game have changed. The beliefs and superstitions of antiquity are obsolete. Now we can act on facts. Those facts tell us that there is no rational reason to worry about heaven or hell. Death is final, but we're OK with that. It doesn't change anything. We don't lose out sense of compassion for others or run amok in the streets like animals. We're the same, because this has always been the natural state of humans. We are by default compassionate. And none of that changes simply because we threw off religion.
