China claims supercomputer crown

Discussion in 'Computer Science & Culture' started by Michael, Oct 29, 2010.

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  1. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,140
    Got to say if we did not import our brains we would have been fucked years ago, already 9/10 of the people in my graduate program are foreigners, most of them Chinese, and many have intent to stay in the USA!
     
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  3. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Well, that is a problem. I think it's one of motivation. I'm not exactly sure why.
     
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  5. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Yah, precisely. Its like all those WWII era movies where you have the Japanese spy with the plans to the new class of aircraft carrier in his briefcase which he is trying to get back to China and the heroic American man, white, anglo, with a hot woman stops the buck toothed Jap with eyeglasses that is small and seemingly weak.

    In reality the complete plans would have recquired an entire train car to carry all of them.

    The lesson is that its easy enough to say its possible, its another to actually be able to do it.
     
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  7. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    I find it hard to believe.
     
  8. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,140
    Its one of education, through education we could motive student's interest in the sciences.
     
  9. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,555
    While it is true that Silicon Valley is the leader in these techs, I think this Chinese thing is an important wake-up call should the west be feeling a but smug and complacent. India is seeking to work ever closer with the tech powerhouses of the west, and has an incredible education / work ethic. I think they will be ones to watch in the future.
     
  10. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Wrong. terribly terribly wrong.

    The thing that makes that supercomputer work, that part is American. Those chips are American. That supercomputer is impossible without OUR chips.

    No one has ever come close to silicon valley. The fact is that computers and the internet and operating systems originate from the US, they are playing on our home field and we make the rules.

    These are companies in silicon valley:

    Notable companies
    See also: Category:Companies based in Silicon Valley
    Thousands of high technology companies are headquartered in Silicon Valley; among those, the following are in the Fortune 1000:


    Adobe Systems
    Advanced Micro Devices (AMD)
    Apple Inc.
    eBay
    Google
    Hewlett-Packard
    Intel
    Intuit
    Nvidia
    Oracle
    VMware
    Yahoo!Adobe Systems
    Advanced Micro Devices
    Agilent Technologies
    Apple Inc.
    Applied Materials
    Cisco Systems
    eBay
    Google
    Hewlett-Packard
    Intel
    Intuit
    Juniper Networks
    LSI Logic
    Maxim Integrated Products
    National Semiconductor
    NetApp
    Nvidia
    Oracle Corporation
    SanDisk
    Sanmina-SCI
    Symantec
    Yahoo!
    Additional notable companies headquartered (or with a significant presence) in Silicon Valley include (some defunct or subsumed):

    3Com (acquired by HP)
    Actel
    Actuate Corporation
    Adaptec
    Aeria Games and Entertainment
    Amazon.com's A9.com
    Amazon.com's Lab126.com
    Amdahl
    Ampex
    Antibody Solutions
    Aricent
    Asus
    Atari
    Atmel
    Broadcom
    Brocade Communications Systems
    BEA Systems (acquired by Oracle Corporation)
    Business Objects (acquired by SAP)
    Cypress Semiconductor
    Electronic Arts
    EMC Corporation (headquartered in Hopkinton, Massachusetts)
    Facebook
    Fairchild Semiconductor
    Force10
    Foundry Networks
    Fujitsu (headquartered in Tokyo, Japan)
    Google
    Hitachi Data Systems
    Hitachi Global Storage Technologies
    IBM Almaden Research Center
    IDEO
    Logitech
    LynuxWorks
    Maxtor (acquired by Seagate)
    McAfee
    Memorex (acquired by Imation and moved to Cerritos, California)
    Micron Technology (headquartered in Boise, Idaho)
    Microsoft (headquartered in Redmond, Washington)
    Mozilla Foundation
    Nokia (headquartered in Espoo, Finland)
    Netflix
    Netscape (acquired by AOL)
    NeXT Computer, Inc. (acquired by Apple)
    Ning
    NXP Semiconductors
    Olivetti (headquartered in Ivrea, Italy)
    Opera Software (headquartered in Oslo, Norway)
    OPPO
    Palm, Inc. (acquired by HP)
    PalmSource, Inc. (acquired by ACCESS)
    PayPal (now part of eBay)
    Philips Lumileds Lighting Company
    PlayPhone
    Rambus
    ROBLOX
    RSA (acquired by EMC)
    Redback Networks (acquired by Ericsson)
    SAP AG (headquartered in Walldorf, Germany)
    Siemens (headquartered in Berlin and Munich, Germany)
    Silicon Graphics
    Silicon Image
    Solectron (acquired by Flextronics)
    Sony
    Sony Ericsson
    SRI International
    Sun Microsystems (acquired by Oracle Corporation)
    SunPower
    Tesla Motors
    TWiT
    Tellme Networks (acquired by Microsoft)
    TiVo
    VA Software (Slashdot)
    WebEx (acquired by Cisco Systems)
    Western Digital
    VeriSign
    Veritas Software (acquired by Symantec)
    VMware
    Xilinx
    YouTube (acquired by Google)
    Zoran Corporation
    Silicon Valley is also home to the high-tech superstore retail chain Fry's Electronics.

    [edit] Notable government facilities
    Moffett Federal Airfield
    NASA Ames Research Center
    Onizuka Air Force Station
     
  11. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    research parks in China:

    Hong Kong Science Park (Hong Kong)
    Shanghai Pudong Software Park (Shanghai)
    Shanhai Zhangjiang Hi-tech Park (aka Zhangjiang Drug Valley) (Shanghai)[1]
    Suzhou BioBay (Suzhou)[1]
    Suzhou Industrial Park (Suzhou)[1]
    Zhongguancun (aka Beijing Zhong-guan-cum Life Science Park) (Beijing)[1]


    United States:

    United States
    Cummings Research Park (Huntsville)
    UAB Oxmoor (www.uab.edu/oadi/park.htm)

    Arizona State University Research Park ([1])
    University of Arizona Science and Tech Park ([2])

    NASA Ames Research Park (near Sunnyvale)
    Silicon Valley (San Jose area)
    Stanford Research Park (Palo Alto)

    Central Florida Research Park (Orlando)
    Miami Civic Center (Miami)

    The Illinois Science & Technology Park (Skokie, IL}

    Purdue Research Park (West Lafayette)

    Science & Technology Park at Johns Hopkins (Baltimore, MD}
    University of Maryland BioPark [3](Baltimore, MD)


    University Park at MIT - Cambridge, MA

    TechTown at Wayne State University - Detroit, MI

    Rensselaer Technology Park at RPI [4]

    Research Triangle Park (Raleigh-Durham)
    University Research Park (University City - Charlotte)
    North Carolina Research Campus (Kannapolis)
    North Carolina State University - Centennial Campus (Raleigh)
    Gateway University Research Park (Greensboro, North Carolina)
    Piedmont Triad Research Park (downtown Winston-Salem)
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill - Carolina North Campus (Chapel Hill)

    North Dakota State University Research Technology Park (Fargo)

    Miami Valley Research Park, Kettering[5] - in the Greater Dayton area
    Mound Advanced Technology Center Miamisburg, OH

    University of Pittsburgh Applied Research Center (U-PARC), Harmarville
    Pittsburgh Technology Center, Pittsburgh
    Bettis Atomic Power Laboratory, West Mifflin
    University City Science Center, Philadelphia

    Clemson ICAR International Center for Automobile Research. Greenville, South Carolina
    The University of South Carolina's Innovista next to The Vista District in downtown, Columbia, SC.

    South Dakota State University Innovation Campus Research Science Technology Park] (Brookings)

    University of Houston Energy Research Park (Houston)
    Texas A&M University Research Park (College Station)
    Texas Research Park (San Antonio)
    University of North Texas Research Park (Denton)


    India:

    Genome Valley[1]
    Shapoorji Pallonji Biotech Park[1]
    ICICI Knowledge Park[1]
     
  12. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,778

    there is nothing to watch out for. the only issue is jobs, commerce and balance of power. technology is used to build and improve. whether an american goes to another country to do it or one of the natives does it after attaining the knowledge, is pretty irrevelant. for instance, a genius will disseminate it's knowledge to the rest of the nongenius population for use and then it spreads abroad.

    technology is to develop the world.
     
  13. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,555
    I know India has a long way to go, but if you look at many of the top research teams, what do you find? Indians, that's right..
    When I was at Uni it was the Asians and Indians that got the consistently high grades. Is a top Indian research faculty really so hard to imagine?
     
  14. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,778
    it's the sense of threat that is an issue with many. a relative level of competition is good if it spurs (positive) improvement.

    people are not always rational. for instance, when a sense of threat is valid, is loss of jobs or if technology is used against another or where crucial resources may be diverted away. just developing one's country is not a threat.

    also, some people just don't like the idea of anyone equaling or being better than someone else in some way or even perceived that way or possibility. either they find it a condescension, possible threat or it's because they are totally selfish unnecessarily. it's the 'my toy is bigger than your toy' game.

    it's constructive if it spurs further development or improvement (going green due to environmental issues/oil, food technology, infrastructure, higher education, higher hdi, medicine, robotics etc). as far as a real threat, america will have none militarily but others have been in more threat. they also have nuclear weapons just like america.

    in the case of america, they are so used to living large and having all the control but it is not really all that positive in the end, health, financially, and otherwise. there needs to be some balance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  15. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Oh so since Jews are 'cheap' we should force them all to be bankers.

    And since Chinese are stereotyped as communists we should deport all asian Americans back to the east.

    Since Indians are stereotyped as good with technology we should force them all to build computers.

    Stop making stereotypes its idiotic. do you think that since many terrorists are Islamic we should arrest all muslims in America?

    And most of those kids are from the top percentage point of their society intellegence and economy wise.
     
  16. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,778
    Yeah, do stop making idiotic statements and stereotypes. It's also spelled "intelligence."

    No, there are plenty of top students (which are a dime a dozen) that are in their native countries.

    You are making a rude, but not a very well veiled insinuation that there are not as many intelligent people in their native countries so the 'top' students (fairly intelligent) are rare. To be honest, one would have to have some marbles missing to even think that, as if other countries are building or maintaining themselves without intelligent people.

    Before you make foolish statements, you should just tone down that rarin' to go ego and try to find out a little truth.

    For example, even in china's countryside, many uneducated poor farmers are self-taught who have built airplanes, subs, helicopters with the materials they have on hand. Just because one does not have access to education, does not mean that they are not as intelligent as those in top universities.

    Oxford-bound boy genius is 'nothing special' in China
    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-08/11/content_468190.htm

    This also dispels the erroneous stereotype that they are not intelligent but only get good grades due to studying. Average students do need to study harder and longer. At least, they are trying to do the best they can.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  17. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    rarin to go ego?

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    Is that an insult?

    http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&...e=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=658&bih=558

    Im all for America bashing. I think America is gonna get itself knocked on its ass one day and I am going to enjoy it.

    But the fact is that 90% of the arguments suck. They stink. They really do.

    For example, claiming that China is better in the tech sector by creating a supercomputer while conveniantly leaving out the fact that 90% of it says "made in USA" is erroneous, misleading, and silly.

    Are you trying to insinuate that somewhere in the genome of an asian or Chinese child there is a gene that says "good at math"?

    Look, the fact is that to argue that asians and indians are inherently good at one particular skill or another for no other reason than their ethnicity is silly.

    Its similar to saying that Jews are cheap. When anybody else is acting cheap they are being smart with their money. But when a Jew acts cheap they are "being a Jew".

    There was an asian kid I became friends with in high school that came to my high school solely because his dad was an executive at sony.

    the kids from asia that come to the US are 99% of the time there mainly because they can afford the education.

    Do you honestly believe that the world is fair enough that there is an imaginary bar where if you are above it you get whisked away to the Ivy league school thousands of miles from your town free of charge and that when you arrive there is a tidy room with all the books you need laying on your well made bed, once more, free of charge?

    Please, the world isn't fair. If you can afford to send your kid to the best school there is even if it is a few thousand miles away you will.

    If your right than why exactly is it that WE have the innovation and technology crown. Why is it that our research parks outnumbers theirs at least 3 to 1? If they are SO smart, than why exactly did they have to buy OUR chips that we made?

    So please, the dime a dozen argument is propaganda.

    I have no idea what you are talking about. My entire argument is that there is no reason to say that one's ethnicity is linked to one's intelligence.
    Half of your reply is putting words into my mouth. When did I say a simple farmer can't have a helicopter? Clearly showing how you can't argue a point without an insult.

    Well it depends on the scale. If your saying population wise than yeah, that's what I'm saying. Percentage wise is a different issue.
    And I fail to see where I made that insinuation, but I can see quite clearly where you put words into my mouth.

    And I also see quite clearly how you are insinuating that somehow one's intelligence is STRONGLY linked to one's ethnicity and that certain ethnicities are inherently superior to others.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  18. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    9,391
    No need to imagine, such already exist. In the category of "up and coming powerhouses in the technology sector," India has long been way ahead of China, and looks to continue to expand its lead. China's advance has been all about low-cost manufacturing, not technological innovation. This left them with a big stack of dollars from selling shoes and toys, which they can use to purchase supercomputer parts from the US. India has been going the other direction, expanding in white-collar jobs and technology. China has lately been working to get up to speed in these areas, but they have a long way to go to even catch up with countries like India, Korea and Japan (let alone the USA), and it's unclear to what extent they can ever do so without serious changes in their culture.
     
  19. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    From what I've seen Vietnam and India are setting up to do to China what the Chinese did to us.
     
  20. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,778
    i didn't claim that or was arguing it was true. i know they aren't but it could be a possibility in the future. stop: be rational for a half-second. what is wrong with the possibility that they would or could innovate in the future? nothing. it would benefit them and others. that's what it's for and that's what's important, not the petty who did it first. yes, that motivation is important to keep up productivity but that is not the real reason. people are like rats in a maze, they need that dangling prize (stroking the ego) even if that is not the most important or real reason for what they achieve.

    uh, how about it's going to happen anyways? americans want manufacturing to come back to made in america as well as many jobs and their economy is in trouble as well as their people are upset. at least the imports will slow down.

    everyone knows that's inevitable and it's inevitable anyways as china is starting to increase domestic products and consumption.

    "they" didn't do anything to you. get your shit straight. stop blaming china for what your own economy did. it was americans who demanded a heavy consumerist lifestyle at the lowest prices and that is why the companies outsourced labor and also for their bottomline.

    besides the fact most people are not innovators no matter what country, it's you who is not getting the picture. i never said they have been better at technology. i said that they have intelligent people.

    do you think everyone who works at silicon valley could have innovated the chip? or most just intelligent people that can be taught and will also add some improvements? could you have innovated the chip? i would say probably not so stfu. i don't know why you think you have more room to be proud or upset because you were born here rather than there or mars.

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    again, i'm not arguing that china is ahead in technological innovation. it's clear they are not but they are doing the best they can and i think that it's commendable.

    you can whine all day they are using "my" chips. as if it's seriously hindering you or something as if that is the only (uno) chip available. it's like 'how dare they', the irate stepsisters tore cinderella's dress because she used their beads and sashes and materials to make her dress fuming 'that's my sash! those are my beads! , even though they had plenty of their own clothes, more than her.

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    you know, they make billions of those chips and it can be used everywhere. calm down, there are plenty. it sounds like unnecessary immature resentment or petulance masquerading because china is really trying to build their country. it's basically hidden ill will pretending to be something else.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  21. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Look, I am not an Amerifreak. I am actually more of an Israel minded person as per my background.

    But the argument is idiotic. Do you understand how chip development works? Its one of the most linear research lines there is. Which means you can't build an I7 if you haven't already built a Pentium 3.

    China can't take a lead position because they are too far behind. They are nowhere close to where the US in chip research.
    If you were talking about any other subject than fine, its true that you can use previous people's work to slingshot you to the fore front.

    But with chip manufacturing that isn't the case, especially if you simply dont possess the know how. To put it in perspective, it would be like taking a modern day turbo charged V10 truck (I have seen these and yes, they are overkill) and sending it back to the pioneering days of automobiles. Sure they know what it is, sure they can make it work, but can they understand and more importantly come up with something comparable? Not a chance in hell.

    Tell me, what is the Chinese competitor to the nvidia http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-tesla-S2050-us.html

    What high performance chips has China made that are serious competitors to an I7, 580 GTX, or ATI 5970?

    How about you put some money where your mouth is. Prove to me that China actually has something going for them in either the CPU or Graphics chip line.

    Probably, but so what?

    If there's one thing you should know about the universe its that NOTHING is inevitable.

    Shut the hell up and stop putting words in my mouth you self righteous ass. I was talking about the massive exportation of cheap and competitively priced products to another nation. India and Vietnam have started exported even more cheaply priced products to China in the same way China did to the US. How about you look up something called "reading comprehension" in case you never went to the 1st grade.

    No sh*t? I'm sorry, but in all my years I never really thought it was possible that a China man could develop half a brain.

    Please birch, I never argued that point and I sure as hell never brought it up as a main point.

    In your own words "yeah, do stop making idiotic statements" oh and, "or most just intelligent people that can be taught and will also add some improvements?" is pathetic grammar.

    Could I have innovated the chip?
    How am I supposed to know what cannot, will not, and won't happen?

    I bet the left hemisphere of your brain is so small you stagger around in a clockwise direction.

    Im not proud or upset, I'm superbly entertained because your inability to construct a coherent argument let alone even understand it is more entertaining than watching a rerun of the final match of the world cup tournament which I keep putting off.

    Anybody with a master's degree in the field and enough competant workers could have built that supercomputer. I fail to see what they should be commended for. Its like commending someone for driving to work.

    They aren't "my chips" they are nvidia's chips, they are the manufacturer's chips.

    It took two years for nvidia to design those chips. It took probably less than a year to construct that supercomputer.

    Yes, for that application that nvidia chip is really the only one out there you would use. But than again you don't know anything about this so you wouldn't know that.

    A cinderella analogy? You really are a kid aren't you? It explains the incoherent argument, the sudden failure of grammar for a paragraph, and the insecure need to throw an insult and a bad analogy around whenever you feel. You have no idea what you are talking about.

    I would agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

    billions? Yah right. Tell me, do you even know the significance of the fermi architecture?

    You talk big for someone that has no idea what they are talking about.

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    I actually know something about computers. If you knew anything about what you were talking about you would realize why what your saying is silly.

    PS Its called the 'shift' button you use it at the beginning of a sentence and for ever 'I', even though you will probably learn it next semester in middle school I figured I would give you a heads up.
     
  22. kmguru Staff Member

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  23. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    Qubits are without doubt the sh*t.

    But personally I'm more interested in that terahertz processor they are working on between IBM and MIT.

    Imagine, transisters that are atoms in size in mass production. Just imagine the easy cooling for that, you literally have entire calculations taking place using single electrons.

    Althought at some point they are going to need to combine chemistry and electrical engineering into a new degree, maybe electro-chemical engineering to give an adequate education into these sorts of reactions on quantum scales.

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