Child seemingly born mentally ill..

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by visceral_instinct, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. Bells Staff Member

    Do you doubt that there is anything wrong with her?

    Is it your position that her "environment", ie her parents, who are somehow manufacturing this and that she is in fact perfectly normal?

    Do you think her doctors are wrong?

    Who do you think is abusing her and how?

    By medicating her?

    If you think she is being abused, do you think she should be removed from her parents care and placed where?
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  3. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    Abuse my ass.

    She has seizure-like fits of rage and aggression, she was virtually born an insomniac, she cannot tell that her imaginary friends are not real, and she does things like climb out of windows. This is not mere personality difference.
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  5. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    (Backs off rapidly)
    Maybe I shouldn't rush to judgement.
    That video is the first I've seen of her.

    I just had a feeling watching it that I was looking at a clever child who has found ways to let out her frustration. There was a happy child in there somewhere. It made me sad and angry.

    I don't know anything about her family,
    so I can't say whether her home life is at fault.

    I would suggest that some time with another family might help.
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  7. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Of course, insanity is defined by an inability to connect to the collective reality of their environment. Anyone completely by themselves and insane are probably going to be fine as long as they get food and shelter and don't hurt themselves. But she would not be able to join her peers in a school, and her parents would have a nervous breakdown having to deal with her 24/7. You seem to think that being intelligent means you don't have any problems, but that's wrong. Most people think I'm fairly normal, but I'm on the autistic spectrum, and I've met many kids with the same condition who seem smart and well adjusted.
  8. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Schizophrenia cases physical brain changes-a thinning of the gray matter.


    One of the things that fMRI technology is showing us is that there are brain changes in all of the mental disorders. In other words, should you take the time and money to pop a major depressive into an fMRI, you could see that they were depressed. The same with a schizophrenic, a bipolar person, an ADHD person, an autistic person, a PTSD person.

    The reason this isn't done is money. It's just easier and cheaper to diagnose through soft criteria you get out of an interview, and then play musical meds until you find one that works.

    Mental illnesses have a physical basis.

    Yeah, Asguard is in training to be a paramedic. He wants to save people and alleviate suffering.

    So I'm tired of seeing you be douchy to him.
    Goodbye, Marquis.
    Happiness is a well-stocked ignore list.
  9. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Ooh, sorry for the double-post, y'all:

    A team in Finland has found metabolic abnormalities associated with schizophrenia...
    ...I find the above really of the nastiest side-effects of antipsychotic meds is...diabetes.

    So...hmm, metabolic error in neurons...

    I wonder if diabetics get to hear it's all in their pancreas?
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  10. Bells Staff Member

    I believe they tried to have her stay with her grandparents and they could not cope with her psychosis or her violence towards them and herself.

    She is a happy child and a very clever one. Quite brilliant actually. Some have suggested that her brilliant intelligence is somehow connected to her schizophrenia, as children born with schizophrenia or have child onset schizophrenia tend to have abnormally high IQ's and are reading before they are two years of age.

    It is quite clear that the goal of her parents and her doctors and the psychology students who help to care for her are trying to ensure the happy and clever child remains at the forefront and her psychotic hallucinations not dominate her life.

    Certainly, if you think placing her in a home full of strangers may help her mental illness and not stress her into another psychotic episode and suicide attempts, maybe you should suggest it at the UCLA psych ward and on her parents blog, which keeps a fairly day to day diary of life with her and this illness. I am sure your expert insight will be looked on favourably.

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    It is very easy to jump to conclusions, chimpkin.

    Personally I found Asguard's comments nauseating. Comparing himself to a girl born with schizophrenia, claiming they are somehow akin, then telling a cancer patient in remission that he would prefer to have cancer than depression..

    Having suffered from both cancer and depression in very recent times (one tends to follow the other), it was insulting, rude, condescending and down right stupid. Comparing himself to a girl locked in a world of animal and number hallucinations, who has no control over herself and who is told by the voices in her head to attack herself, those around her and kill herself... I'm sorry, but really?

    There is no comparison. This was the icing on the cake for me personally.. Asguard's comparison to cancer:

    both are more often than not fatal, both are very debilitating, both can cause massive changes in personality (for brain tumors), the treatments for both have very bad side effects (especially anti psycotics). Actually when i think about it they are both quite similar

    I seriously don't even know where to begin.. It infuriates me. I think if I began, I would not know where to stop. So I ignored his desire for cancer and cancer comparison and comment. I think if I had responded, I would probably be banned from this forum. Permanently..

    So please, do not jump to conclusions so hastily. Marquis has been posting here for many years and like me, has seen and noticed many things over the years. Now as infuriating as Marquis can be, and yes, he can be infuriating, he actually isn't incorrect...

    /End rant..
  11. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    I used to go to a mental health forum, and what the schizophrenics get to go through is really freaking dreadful...I hate being depressive, but the schizo-spectrum people have it way worse, unless they have a super-mild case.

    I have a great affection for loonies of all stripes; this is why I think I'd eventually be good at working with them.
    I hope I get there.
    I feel really bad for the nutters that turn up here...the ones that are obviously posting from paranoia-land. Paranoid ideation...again not a happy place.
    Their hallucinations are not happy hallucinations. Nothing like mine, which were fun, once I stopped freaking out. I miss them.

    (Sorry, I feel the need to try and deal with the drama some more. Sigh)

    Asguard has really gotten on my nerves also.
    The thread's title:"what stops you raping kids?"
    I'm sure he meant this as a hyperbolic example. The thing he doesn't perhaps realize(and maybe ought to learn in his school...)
    Child rape's not that uncommon. For me, first time at four...well oral rape...but the law of averages states a subset of people here would have been raped as children... thinking it's 7% of kids are raped total? more girls than boys.
    So Azzie gets on my nerves, but wishing him dead???

    Too...I took The Marquis's statements about suicide and depression personally, since I've been ideating for three years now, through lots of med changes.

    He seems to think depression and suicide is just a failure to gird one's loins up or something.

    A good friend of mine was nice enough to talk out of suicide on the 16th of last month-we're kind of mutually doing that as needed...I had been doing better and my wife had left the pistol unlocked...Then I had a flashback that hit like a freight train.
    Really embarrassing to go back and read those emails.

    That little girl has great potential if she were not schizophrenic. On the mental health forum, there's a lot of people like that...brilliant, kind, funny, creative people, who happen to be nutty as Christmas fruitcakes...this includes the schizophrenics. There was one guy who was posting for a while. He'd been diagnosed with schizophrenia his senior year of high school, and was coming to the conclusion he could not be a doctor, the stress of med school would be too much...and that had been what he had planned to do; be a doctor.
    I'd have...some potential...but my brain's one with the oatmeal a lot.
    Makes me think that my life is not worth the amount of hurt it entails to live it.
    Cancer's usually going to be worse than major depression...exceptions being a spot of skin cancer that gets popped off easily. It would depend on what kind of cancer, where it is and whether you can just excise it easily or not. If you have to do chemo or radiation...nah, that stuff is miserable.

    I've had my arm plated back together after a car wreck, though...
    Just from the standpoint of being debilitating? having a casted and screaming arm versus severe depression...I'd take the compound fracture and thanks.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  12. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    I'm not really an expert, Bells.
    But yes, if the UCLA psych people would like to get in touch, I'd be glad to help.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  13. Bells Staff Member

    The point is, there is no comparison.

    You simply cannot compare it.. Like apples and oranges.. Sure, both are fruits, like both schizophrenia and cancer are a disease, but you cannot compare..

    I have spent the better part of the last year on chemo and radiation and all the rest of the fun stuff that goes with it. The only thing that kept me going, that stopped me from drinking a packful of the uber pain tablets I had on hand was my children.. That was the only thing that kept me going. To wish for cancer or to claim it is better than depression.. What the? There is NO comparison.

    Just as there can never be a comparison to this child's disease and what she is going through. I'll put it this way.. It never even entered my mind to say 'well my cancer was so much better.. so glad I got that instead!'.. The thought of saying something like that makes me want to gag..

    This girl's life is a living nightmare, and it is more so for those around her. She is plagued by voices telling her to harm others and those closest to her, to eat her brother.. I mean, what the fuck!?!.. She had voices telling her to eat her brother and she started gnawing at him while telling him she was sorry and that she loved him. I am an adult and I cannot even begin to imagine the horror of that moment for her, her parents and her brother. You can't turn around and say 'well I suffered from depression and that's a mental illness and I get suicidal thoughts and want to and have tried to do it, so yeah, we're kind of the same'.. There is no comparison between the two. There can never be a comparison between the two. But that is what Asguard tried to do.

    This child's illness is not about Asguard's depression or suicide attempts from his youth.. CANNOT COMPARE..

    This child has no choice and no options.. Medications are failing her, she is on her last chance and if this starts to fail, she will retreat and possibly be lost entirely.. Again.. cannot compare.. So her parents have to watch her and hope that they are able to stop her when the voices tell her she has to kill herself or anyone else around her.. again.. CANNOT COMPARE..

    And here's Asguard saying if he'd really wanted to do it he'd have taken different tablets and how he would never do as Marquis commented on if he really wanted to do it, because it would hurt.. WHAT THE FUCKING HELL?! It would hurt? I mean really?

    *Finds happy place.. *

    *Deep breath*

    Read Marquis' posts. He does not think depression or suicide is a failure to "gird one's loins".. far from it.. I am not angry with you chimpkin. What angers me is when people like Asguard tries to envy things like cancer or this girl's disease to make himself feel better.. That makes me super angry.
  14. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

    Well, thank you Bells. I was just about to go off on another rant.

    Just a couple more things to say.
    I don't "wish Asguard dead" at all, and I didn't say anything like it.
    I merely commented that it wouldn't bother me overly much if he decided to do it.
    The two are not the same thing.

    I care about those I care about, and I don't about those I don't. There are currently 6.5 billion people in the world, give or take a few hundred thousand, and I can't care about them all. I pick and choose. If we're talking about sympathy, then the same applies. Although there is a slight difference in that, as I said; I've seen enough of the world outside my own doorstep to know who might be deserving of it, and who does not. I'm not going to cater to any false feewings because I'm told I should by people who don't have a clue as to what feeling actually is.

    I've seen more wisdom (for want of a better word) displayed by the poorest, least educated villager in South East Asia than is displayed by the kind of ignorant self-indulgence I see on display here. I know where my limited capability for sympathy lies... and I am not so foolish as to call it empathy, as is the apparent wont of some.

    I'll add one more thing, and it is more to do with "the topic" at hand. Jani.
    You, Kremmen, had just a hint of a clue and backed down on it.

    Watch the video with Oprah in it again. You'll see it, if you look closely enough.
    Girl is only 6 years old and already knows what ugliness is. She doesn't yet have the capability to express it; I sincerely hope she lives through the formative years and gets that chance.
  15. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    I said something like that in my earlier post...

    I wouldn't go as far as cancer. A friend of mine who has breast cancer posted pictures of what late stages look like if you don't get proper treatment, and they make even my hair stand up on end. But a lot of cases I'd take physical problems over depression. Seen what it does to people, don't want to go there.
  16. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Alright Marquis...
    Now that I am at home and can do so...
    I watched the video...if I didn't know better, I would say severe ADHD plus autistic spectrum from the spastic movements.

    The fact that she's on clozaril and lithium...and is still bouncing off the walls like that?
    Try putting you, I or most ordinary persons on that kind of cocktail...
    If we weren't peeing on ourselves and in a semi-conscious state...we'd probably be doing good.

    One of the things pointed out in the book "Listening to Prozac," is that there's a certain ability to diagnose based on a patient's reaction to meds...If you or I got put on her med cocktail, we would not be bouncing least I don't think...clozaril is usually a last-line drug because of the fatality risk...but on those whom it does not cause agranulocytosis, it is a miracle drug, stomps psychosis flat.

    Thorazine was the first antipsychotic...used to be a horse tranquilizer, if I'm remembering correctly...
    So antipsychotics...kinda can give you a case of the stupids. Make you slow down.

    She's on a high she slowed down?
    She's hyper as all get out.
    I don't think this is the parents' doing, as you implied...I would be more inclined to think severe hyperactivity...but I don't doubt the DX here. Oh, keep in mind if it were her parent's doing she would start to act differently when away from them...she goes to the psych hospital and acts the same, right?
  17. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    I backed off because I was being challenged to substantiate my opinions with facts, and I don't have them.
    All I have is an impression, a hunch, that this intelligent child is locked into playing some kind of game.

    Yes she is terribly hyperactive, and manipulative, and aggressive, but is she a schizophrenic?

    I still think that a period in the presence of a talented carer might help.
    In a settled family setting, if possible.
    That just seems like common sense to me.

    Someone said earlier about her being on the Oprah show,
    and that she knew ugliness when she saw it.
    I wonder what they meant by that.
    While Oprah is not my kind of TV, (I'm more of a News Channel viewer),
    from the little I've seen of her she is a very caring person.
    And ultra sharp too.

    Someone like her would be perfect for fostering the child for a while.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  18. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    I dunno..did the chaos of the family cause the child, or did the child cause the chaos of the family?

    Hmm??? :shrug:
    Hard to say if you have not spent time with them...
    I'm inclined to think all these psych grads might have noticed something...actually, I'd HOPE that they would...
    I can't rule out the possibility, but view it as unlikely.

    I believe Oprah has a Master's in Sociology...
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  19. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

    Did I?
    I actually think, from the looks of things, that the parents are doing everything within their capability.

    Been bouncing back from the footy to this wondering if I really want to reply.
    I tipped Hawthorn by 38.

    You're a cricket fan, right?
    Herschelle Gibbs, 1999, World Cup, South Africa v Australia.
  20. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

    Aye, I've seen a thousand kids come out of Uni waving degrees around too.
    Means they passed a test or two, once.
  21. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

    Does one get huge black circles around the eyes from being schizophrenic? They are poisoning her. Filling a 6 year old girl with medications that would cool down an adult sounds like playing the Russian roulette with her life. These medications can also lead to hallucinations and so on. No wonder, no wonder She seemed absolutely normal to me, a child with a huge imagination and fantasy who is healthily active, but the parents look sick to me. They are trying at any cost to find something wrong with their daughter, when there's nothing wrong with her, only the fact that they implanted the insane blabbering into their daughter from small on. They should take the daughter away from them for at least a month and give her to a sane and normal foster family for a while and stop the medication ( since it obviously doesn't help at all, apart from destroying every functional organ this girl has ), or more like forever, because the parents act more schizophrenic than January could ever act like.

    Look at the mother, her daughter runs around in the hospital (just like any other healthy child would), the mother then grabs her after having given birth to their son, and the January joyfully notes, "ohh she's not pregnant any more" since the mother wasn't pregnant any more, obviously, but the mother thinks that January is talking to a ghost, isn't that crazy? Yeah, her mother must be crazy.
  22. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Hyperactive children give their parents a hellish time.
    They frequently say he/she is driving us crazy.
    Maybe in this case she did just that.

    Your heart goes out to the poor child,
    but I honestly couldn't take 30 minutes of that behaviour,
    so I'm in no position to judge her parents.

    You would have to be a very special kind of person to deal with her.
    Unfortunately children are paired with parents at random.

    Surely they must have taken a break from her at some point.
    If not, why not?
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  23. Guest264 Registered Member

    I thought this was strange

    (From janisjourney dot org)

    She tried to make it clear to her parents that she knew she had no reason to attack Bodhi, but them, yes she did.

    So I looked further and found this, which the father has apparently now removed from his blog:

    (spitbristleandfury dot wordpress dot com)

    The blogger further writes:

    Upon being asked by a reader how Shari Roan [the Oprah producer ?? who interviewed Jani] could have written this story but omitted the abuse that both parents admit to she said, among other things:

    The parents say that the violence started at about age 4?
    I can believe the child had mental illness from the start, but now I think it's possible that the violence comes from having been hit by her parents.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011

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