Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by shorty_37, Apr 17, 2008.
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That article made my skin crawl.
And the following:
Main article can be found here.
How could any decent person disagree with you. These people are sick and I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can fail to see that.
I wonder when Sam will begin to draw conclusions between child pageantries and the treatment of prisoners in Gitmo.
Wait for it...
That. Is. Fucking. Sick.
Completely agree, that's not something for a child to worry about. They'll have time enough when they're 18 to worry that they're fat/not pretty enough.
They should be allowed to be kids, not forced to be short versions of adults.
" Gaining poise and confidence is cited most often by parents as the reason for putting their child into these contests. "She learns skills such as going out in a crowd, not to be shy, and to be herself while people are watching and focusing on her," one mother noted.
"You see this a lot among people on the lower-income and education scales," Levey comments. "They want their kids to learn skills that are needed to move up the social scale."
A high percentage of parents said they enter their children into beauty contests so they can meet others. "Pageants help my daughter make friends," one mother noted.
Other parents put their children into the competitions because they themselves found them to be helpful. "Pageants were a positive experience for me," another mom commented. "I became less shy, learned about public speaking, gained job interview skills, and got rid of a heavy Maine accent."
Mine too! The whole thing is disgusting. I don't understand how anybody could defend this, unless they are just as sick as that parents that are doing this to their kids. I think the poll says it all! :bugeye:
I think this kid is great!! Alot of work put into that. Difference is she looks much older than these 4,5,6 yrs old in the pageants. She isn't made up to look like a prostitute, and she isn't being judged on how pretty she is.
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:thumbsup: Pathetic isn't it. Funny thing though, this kind of off topic posting, trollling isn't allowed in her Biology threads. :bugeye:
Sam is putting forth a valid argument though. If she had not, this thread would not have gotten to 20 pages. She does have a point, just because the majority disagree with her does not make what she is trying to say any less valid.
If you read what she says, she also agrees that the parents are the ones who have issues, but she disagrees that they are purposefully sexualising their children... to make their children sex objects. She may be right, the parents may not realise that their children are sex objects in the manner in which they dress at these pageants. In the majority of the articles posted, all have mentioned that the parents do not realise or recognise how strange they actually are in pushing their kids into this miniature adult world. And that is exactly what they are doing, pushing their little kids into being adults, only shorter and much too young.
If you think about it, at the end of the day, letting little girls dress up and put make up on is harmless. As a little girl, my mother allowed me to play with her make up, high heels, dresses, etc. But where I was allowed to play, the little girls in these pageants do it as a business. And that is the tragedy of this whole thing.
how about not labeling us as westerners :shrug:
at least will make us pretend you are not some bigot.
What these kids are being pushed into can hardly be compared to normal childish behaviour. Did your mum encourage you to dress up, buy you special clothes and so on before parading you in public ? I guess not.
Whether these parents are stupid, greedy, living through their kids or whatever, in no way lessens that fact that these competitions are sick. They should be condemned without reservation because the children pay the price in the long run. There is a sense in which it could be argued that they are groomed by their parents in the way that paedophiles groom children online.
You're not looking at the big picture, dear. Acting like little midget whores is all fine and dandy, but doing so in front of cameras, and thousands and thousands of people, borders on the obscene.
But (Q) got the biggest glimpse yet: it's all about the prize money.
The youngest kids I have seen on those shows are 5 years old but not all videos are available online. (Its not a kids show, they have adults, handicapped and elderly people as well, its a weekly theme)
I think it also depends on how people view such stuff. I agree that some of them are a bit extreme in makeup etc, but its a competition, some people will always go overboard. Are they representative of all parents and all girls?
Seems to me, they are being vindicated by judges who select the most made up girls, that is actually the message that brings in more made up girls.
I think (Q)'s post pretty much says it all.
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You obviously missed the countless of posts I have made in this thread about what I think of child beauty pageants and parents who allow and push their children into it. I was pointing out that Sam's argument is valid in that the parents may not realise that their children are being sexualised and that they are simply ignorant of the damage they are doing to their children in not allowing them to be children.
I never said it was not obscene. On the contrary, I don't think it borders on it. I personally think it is obscene.
And Q did get to the heart of this scene. It is about the money. I posted an article earlier on in the thread where one of the organisers of these pageants commented on how they actually display the prize money and have the child hold the cash fanned out in front of them for the photos. It allows people who read the paper and magazines to see that there is a pot of gold at the end of the garish rainbow and parents are willing to exploit their children for that money. They will excuse it by saying it builds their confidence and allows them to make friends, but at the end of the day, it is cold hard cash that speaks the loudest.
It may not be representative of all the parents, but it has set the benchmark. One interview with a parent who had entered her daughter into one such competition and who had not made up her daughter to look like a miniature adult commented on the fact that she wanted her daughter to be herself and natural. Her daughter did not win and the one who did win?
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But again, it all boils down to this:
I have read all of your posts as I followed the progress of the debate. As so frequently happens, there is a danger of what I regard as the main point getting lost in a welter of detail. There are two issues being discussed.
The first is the contests themselves and the concommitant sexualization of children. Does anyone disagree that thre is something sick about this ?
Next we have the question of the motivation of the parents. Whatever motivates the parents is irrelevant as far as the likely effect on the children is concerned and does nothing to invalidate the first point.
It should be clear that we are talking about two seperate issues.
I have read a number of posts which make stupid comparisons with other activities in which children take part. We were invited to agree that in some sense young girls entering these contests could be compared with kids entering a spelling bee, to give one example. For each of these odious comparisons I have pointed out that the children taking part are presented as children, not as miniature glamour models.
Lastly, the point about money is probably true as far as the majority of parents is concerned parents but , as I have said, the parents' motivation does not change the fact that these contests are sick and probably a pervert's dream come true.
Why do we generally (myself included) feel such a visceral distaste for these things? My daughters loved to play dress-up. What makes this so different? The fact that they are being exploited by fanatical parents for money?
and I think that's a damn good question visceral! thanks!
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