# Causal Mechanism for Gravity

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by RJBeery, May 13, 2017.

1. ### RajeshTrivediValued Senior Member

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No, my idea is that strong force/interaction is actually gravity only.

This leftover or residual is no science. Nuclear strong force is considered as residual/leftover of strong interaction..but in my proposal both strong interaction and strong force are logically explained as gravity with variable G depending on the energy density. Its like this, energy density at quark level is 10**35 units, while from Hydrogen atom to Sun or galaxy or cluster it is of the order of 10**22. So it is natural, rather not absurd, to claim that G at quark range is 10**39 while beyond nucleus it is of the prevalent value. Can anyone find flaw with this argument?

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3. ### ajantaRegistered Senior Member

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Ok, and if you consider, an imaginable clock on photon will tick always 0 second, then what do you think about my previous post ?

Last edited: May 16, 2017

5. ### RJBeeryNatural PhilosopherValued Senior Member

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The electrical neutrality doesn't play a role here - the fact that the electrons orbit the positive nucleus means that almost all atoms have a negative external charge, and it is this charge that prevents atoms from touching. What interests me is why we consider roughly 10^-8 meters to be "touching" but not, say, one meter or 100,000 meters even though material can affect other material at any arbitrary distance.

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7. ### danshawenValued Senior Member

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The same energy arguments you gave for photons could be made of the trajectory of an ascending/descending baseball, with or without red/blue Doppler shifts. Energy transfer events are the rule, not the exception, in this universe. They can happen as a result of any of the fundamental forces, including gravity.

I understand your conceptual problem here, because with photons traveling at c, the time dilation is "alll the way" according to relativity. For something that has mass, like a muon or a baseball, it would be a different story in terms of time dilation, of course.

So, no real issue with anything you wrote here.

This is a great observation (that there seems to be a big difference in terms of time dilation for bound energy like matter and unbound energy like a photon). Conceptually, both observations are correct. The tricky part is trying to explain it here without running off the rails like I always seem to get dinged for. If you have an idea about it that is not established science, consider posting it for discussion in alternative theories.

I know that one of the problems with this idea in the past has been that it sits there without any discussion at all. I'll try to pay attention to that, even if no one else will, which is regrettable. RJBeery started this one and is on a roll, so let's see where this idea goes first. A few other ideas have been tabled.

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8. ### RJBeeryNatural PhilosopherValued Senior Member

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I'll give my 2 cents here. The increased gravitational force of a blue-shifted photon won't travel more distance than a red-shifted one because, in theory, their gravitational effects both propagate to infinity. The blue-shifted photon's field may be stronger but, again, that doesn't mean that the effects travel any faster. A large diminishing wave and a small diminishing wave can both travel to infinity at the same velocity (probably c) without contradiction.

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9. ### ajantaRegistered Senior Member

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But strong gravity has extend field than weak gravity, so when it becomes strong then the field will be extended at that moment. Is it sir ?

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10. ### RJBeeryNatural PhilosopherValued Senior Member

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Imagine a boat moving through water leaving a wake behind it. A helicopter flies by and dumps cargo on the boat. Now the boat is heavier and the wakes are bigger "at that moment" but the wakes are not moving any faster. I don't understand your confusion.

11. ### ajantaRegistered Senior Member

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Photons have no "rest" mass. Photons are never at rest and can only go at one speed, the "speed of light", so rest mass is meaningless in this case. They do, however, have "relativistic" mass. So blue-shifted photon has more relativistic mass than red-shifted photon and blue-shifted photon has strong gravitational effect than red-shifted photon..... In theory, their gravitational effects both propagate to infinity. But when red-shifted photon falls into gravitational field then it gains energy and the extra energy will generate extra gravitational effect(when photon is traveling at light speed), so the extra gravitational effect should propagate to infinity to make strong gravitational effect as blue-shifted photon. Actually my question was about....

In 0 second(because an imaginable clock on photon will tick always 0 second) how can the extra energy(of blue-shifted photon) produce gravitational effect that will propagate to infinity to make strong gravitational effect of blue-shifted photon ?

Last edited: May 17, 2017
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12. ### RJBeeryNatural PhilosopherValued Senior Member

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I understand your question, I simply don't understand what is confusing about it. Forget the proper time of the photon and consider the situation from the mass causing the gravitational field; the boat-on-water response posted above seems to describe the situation.