Catcalling -- creepy or a compliment?

Hence this

 

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Then I believe they are doing themselves and femininity a disservice. Misunderstanding what it is that's oppressing women. Again, I think this comes from confusing misandry with feminism. Feminists don't hate anything other than hypocrisy. I don't think any real feminist wants to defeminise themselves, since it's their femininity they're vying for. To be allowed to be a woman, and not be thought of as weak for that. Women who deny they're women can do so if they so choose, but that has nothing to do with feminism, that has to do with not wanting to be feminine. Perhaps.

 

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How about a hint?

I feel like I'm missing a good joke here.

 

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Well, since the onus is on the car jacker not to steal my car, why the hell should I lock my car door?

Since the onus is on the thug not to bash the shit out of me, why the hell shouldn't I walk down that dark alley?

Stating that sensible people should take precautions to protect themselves against bad people is not the same as attempting to justify the abberant behaviour of bad people.

Construction workers and the like should have the decency not to go around jeering at women. But sadly, some don't. If you're a women, and you're so bothered by this, then it's probably a sensible thing not to dress like a slut and get their attention.

 

Can't blame them. Mainstream feminists are scum.

 

especially the gook ones?

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I swear, besides yourself, who do you like?

 

Orleander:

I've never met a gook feminist, so I wouldn't know. Gook culture seems to respect their males, unlike Western culture.

 

imagining a pack of dudes yelling at your sister/mum/gf seems to be the most effective way of translating it. its just ugly, some girls can't walk down the street without animals screaming at them. i really doubt the kind of dudes that do this kinda shit go on sciforums though. we need subliminal messaging on beer packaging, holden commodores that come with 'don't treat women like sluts' on the windscreen. we can probably just remove blacktown/parramatta/auburn etc. lol.

 

(Insert title here)

Steven Brust once pointed out that locks don't stop thieves, and instead are something akin to "Keep Out" signs.

So now you're comparing wolf-whistles and catcalls to carjacking and physical assault?

Here, one of my least-favorite American commentators makes the point very well:

Time now for Beat the Press. First up, FOX's Bill O'Reilly. On his radio show last week, O'Reilly discussed the rape and murder of eighteen year-old. Jennifer Moore. See if you can tell who he thinks is responsible for the killing of that New Jersey girl. Here he is:

"She was five-foot-two, a hundred and five pounds, wearing a miniskirt and a halter top with a bare midriff. Now, again: there you go. So every predator in the world is going to pick that up at two in the morning. She's walking by herself on the West Side Highway, and she gets picked up by a thug. Alright? Now she's out of her mind drunk ...."​

So she's got a halter top with a bare midriff, and she's drunk, therefore she gets raped and murdered? As if that's natural? That's what happens when you've got a bare midriff and you're loaded? Not in my America, buddy. Pretty low standards; I mean, I don't know if O'Reilly's attempting to blame her for luring this guy in or what, but the fact is it's sick all the way around. You ought to be able to wear whatever you want on our streets and not get raped and murdered. (MSNBC via YouTube)​

It's a fairly obvious point. So obvious, in fact, that a guy who thinks giving refuge to fugitives from the government is the equivalent of being a Nazi can see it.

Look, I think it's stupid that I should need to keep a Club® on my car, but life goes on. It's not a big deal, and the circumstances under which it will have a negative effect in life and death situations are so remote that I'll worry about it when it happens.

However, both men and women need to lock their homes, lock their cars, use a Club® or alarm to deter thieves. Okay, fine.

Yet it's women who, in order that men with no better decency or self respect should not be tempted into making fools of themselves and demeaning their fellow human beings, should limit the manner in which they dress?

A proposition: Next time you hear a guy complaining about homosexuals and how he doesn't want any fags hitting on him, just look him up and down appreciatively, shrug, and tell him that he probably shouldn't go around in whatever it is he's wearing.

Of course, that advice is coming from someone who can't seem to be able to give it away in a gay club. So maybe it's not what the guy is wearing. Instead of telling him to dress differently, remind him that he should stop acting like he's gay.

What? It should get a laugh. From someone else.

Of course, since walking down the street is enough for a woman to be asking for it, perhaps your next advice will be that they should just stay home. Wearing burqas.

 

I love this, its going to be my favorite argument against the knuckle scapers hereon.

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A dubious interpretation, I admit: Sabbath

For some reason (I wonder why?) I have an old Sabbath song stuck in my head: "Faeries wear boots and now you've gotta believe me. Yeah, I saw it, I saw it—I tell you no lies."

 

I admire that you took that on Tiassa. You know, in another thread there's the question of, "For whom do you dress?" Apparently none of the respondents dressed for prospective vulgarians. But that doesn't seem to correspond, since women who like to dress a certain way should expect to be verbally mauled, and are practically advertising their desire to be berated in a sexually demeaning way. Perhaps the only way a woman can avoid being cajoled is to dress from head-to-foot with her head bowed and her mouth hushed. I then have to ask, when is a man's attire EVER brought into question when he is raped? We're not talking of rape, I know. But if a pack of marauding women "cat-call" (no male equivalent) a man is his clothing ever mentioned? No! How vapid an argument that would be. It was his own fault, his jeans were too tight, you could see his obviously half aroused package. He was gagging for it. So, there it is. The plainly obvious. When a woman is verbally assaulted or raped her appearance comes into question. If it happens to a man, that notion seems utterly ridiculous. Something iffy there Your Honour.

 

Common sense?

Last week I was headed out to see friends, and as I drove through the parking lot, one of my neighbors was walking out to her car. Immediately, I noticed the short sundress. I mean, not only was it that short, it was also the first time I'd seen such clothes this season. And you damn well better bet I ogled. Wonder of wonders, she opened the passenger side of her car and leaned into get something out. She certainly wasn't wearing a thong. She might have been wearing a g-string.

Certainly, it brightened my day. But come on, she doesn't need to hear it from me. I'm perfectly happy to receive whatever aesthetic gifts the day will bring, and the last thing I'm going to do is try to reduce the possibility of such occasions in the future by encouraging that she should be too afraid of people to wear whatever the hell she wants.

 

Always nice to see that Tiassa and Bells fail to grasp the point, and then post pages of verbal diarrhea in 'rebuttal'. As if I have the time to read it.

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Personally, I think it's amazing that you can type so much in order to address an argument I didn't make.

But then again, that is your method of operation. Very rarely do you actually address views which you find objectionable. More often that not, you address hyperbole and strawmen.

 

That's right. If it bothers women SO MUCH when they get catcalled, then it is only sensible not to dress in a sexually provocative manner. Granted, they might still get heckled by assholes. But at least not dressing like a skank decreases your chances.

I mean, if you dress in a sexually provocative manner, is it any surprise that you get the sexual attention of the opposite gender (and some homosexuals)? That applies for both males and females. Granted, assholes should restrain themselves, but who are you kidding? If you hate being exposed to such behaviour so much, why go out of your way to put yourself in that situation?

Tiassa:

Yeah, its good policy not to walk past gay bars while wearing skintight jeans while displaying your six pack and rippling musculature, unless you're, well, gay.

 

Hide our daughters!

Still wouldn't work. Then we could see your eyes. And, you know, her lips said no, but her eyes said, yes, yes, yes.

There's only one solution:

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​

Of course, maybe that light in the chest is too slutty. It is, after all, a glowing hole.

• • •​

That's one way of looking at it. To the other, though, if I ask those homophobes what they were doing hanging around gay bars, they'll tell me they weren't. Liars? Or maybe you're suggesting women should simply avoid anyplace where heterosexual men might be found?

Given that a woman can go out of her way, as such, merely by existing within eyeshot of many men, your question is either disingenuous or insanely naîve.