Castes of India

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by kmguru, Jul 30, 2001.

  1. Deadwood Registered Senior Member

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    386
    Its stories like this that let me know i'm making a good choice not to get married.

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    I would hate to end up like that, though I could end up happy as well. Anyway, both genders have told me numerous times out of nowhere that I would make a good husband one day and that they can picture me with kids. hehe, one said I would be a little sweetie *blush*

    But anyway, I'll see what happens. Right now I'm taking a break from girl troubles and concentrating on studying. Then I'll be concentrating on getting a job. Then I'll be concentrating on working at my job and pleasing my boss. Then I'll be concentrating on ending my midlife crisis. Then I'll be concentrating on changing careers. Then concentrating on that job. Then concentrating on pleasing that boss. Then concentrating on retiring. Then when I retire I'll be concentrating on polishing my lawn bowling skills, and winning the tournament so I can pick up some chicks(the lawn bowling kind). Well thats my life story played out.

    Did you want to see how that goes again?
     
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  3. kmguru Staff Member

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    Except I did not see any wife and kids in your plan - is that by design or afraid the plan will take too many detours?

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  5. Deadwood Registered Senior Member

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    Did you want to hear plan B?

    I thought you might!

    Well, this used to be plan A, but for some reason got put back, can't think why? But this one is really simple.

    Live with parents. When I turn 32 I will consider moving out. Then at 36 after considering to move out, decide to put parents in a home. So at 36, I move in with my parents at the nursing home where I live out the rest of my days. I still havn't told my mum about the moving in part but I always joke around with her. hehe she always says "Your not putting me in a home!!!"

    Well the reason why 36 is because I want to beat the precedent our current prime minister has set. I think he moved out at 32, that I consider it then.

    Perhaps I can put wife in Plan C or D or something, but anyway, I should realate this to Eastern Philosophy somehow. So I'll just say I live in the Eastern part of Australia and love Philosophy.

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  7. tony1 Jesus is Lord Registered Senior Member

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    *Originally posted by kmguru
    I was told that, God made the Jews wander for one generation so that the old beliefs will die with the last generation. I hope that is the case here.
    *
    It doesn't look like it's working.
    It's been going on for hundreds of years, so far, hasn't it?

    *There is not a single person in US that knows anything about Communism as espoused by Karl Marks.*
    There was a guy whose nick was Boris, who came to the US from Russia.
    He seemed to be relatively familiar with it.
    Of course, he mentioned something about the US having made a better choice in having money to motivate people rather than ideology.

    For some strange reason, people can buy more things with money than they can with ideology.

    *I believe and try to obey everything that Emmanuel (sp, Jesus birthname?) spoke of including the ten commandments. This belief, to me, does not contradict my way of life based on Sanatana Dharma.
    ...
    Does that make me a Christian, I do not know.
    *
    Worry no longer, it doesn't.

    There is nothing you can do to become a Christian.

    that if with your mouth you confess Jesus as Lord and in your heart believe that God brought Him back to life, you shall be saved.
    For with the heart men believe and obtain righteousness, and with the mouth they make confession and obtain salvation.

    (Romans 10:9,10, WEY).

    *Originally posted by Deadwood
    But we just don't ask for blessing.
    *
    Why not?

    Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
    (Psalms 2:8, KJV).

    Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
    For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

    (Matthew 7:7,8, KJV).

    Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
    (James 4:2, KJV).

    *Originally posted by kmguru
    Within a few weeks, our shy kids had rich friends. So, all I could say is...hmmm...that is how the society works...it was not in my technical manual of life
    *

    You need a different manual.

    A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
    (Ecclesiastes 10:19, KJV).
     
  8. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
    (Psalms 2:8, KJV).

    Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
    For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

    (Matthew 7:7,8, KJV).

    Works everytime for me...and Jesus loves me too.

    I hope they work for you O! Tony1...
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2001
  9. Ankit The Angel Registered Senior Member

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    Borne Hindu, but currently a devout Atheist.

    Surely, the ostensible reason we have created a God is because we all lived (and still do) desperate (whether obvious or quiet) lives and hope for inspiration and security from some-one/thing that is perfect (security factor #1), benevolent (security factor #2) and omnipotent (security factor #3)?

    Thank you and goodnight.

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  10. kmguru Staff Member

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    IT WORKS....as long as you are happy....

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  11. tony1 Jesus is Lord Registered Senior Member

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    *Originally posted by kmguru
    Works everytime for me...and Jesus loves me too.

    I hope they work for you O! Tony1...
    *

    It's great that works for you everytime.
    You could be building your house on shifting sands.

    Whosoever comes to me, and hears my sayings, and does them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
    He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
    But he that hears, and does not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

    (Luke 6:47-49, KJV).

    What would you be building if you hear the word of God and do the things of Hinduism?
    I'm guessing your house will collapse before the storm reaches it.
     
  12. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    KMGuru's house is no where near the "shifting sands". Tony1 is barking at the wrong tree.
     
  13. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    2,478
    Funny thing about western "castes". I find that presentation is everything. I'm from the wrong side of the tracks and have done my time in the ghetto. My life is defined by street fights, leather jackets, concealed weapons, routine death threats from gangs, and all of the trappings of life in the inner-city.

    When I graduated from high school, I went through a bit of turmoil while adjusting to adult parameters (like knowing I could be tried as an adult) and set myself on my course. I found a job that put me in contact with CEOs and financial officers of major corporations. At one point I was working regularly with representatives of the state government. I had swapped out my skull-and-dagger multiple earrings for ruby-studs, replaced my cobra-fang hooked ring with a modest ruby ring (can you tell I like rubies?), and muted my cosmetic colors from colors of flame to soft pastels. Visually I had gone from Spike the Blood Queen to Chief Officer of Accounting.

    I acted professionally and was accepted by the high executive world as one of their own. My cover didn't get blown until I was called in during my off hours to handle a situation that involved a large sum of missing assets. I came in wearing my street gear, looking more like I was casing the joint rather than being there to track down all that money. To my surprise, the men and women in the designer Italian suits didn't bat an eye as we went to work. We found the money and it wasn't until the next morning that I was asked about my style of dress. I explained where I was from and their attitudes, across the board, were "Oh, okay. As long as you represent the company and it's clients in a positive manner during your work hours."

    They didn't care that I went to a rough inner-city school and held no degree while they had been born to the upper crusts and went to places I could only dream of attending, like Harvard, Yale, or Oxford. Rich met poor and it didn't make a difference. I was a punk, but I was also the Chief Officer of Accounts.

    I guess what we have here is more a class of behavior. It's like, it doesn't matter that you're a big shot movie star. Get your feet off the table. Or in my case, it doesn't matter that you're a moshing punk street fighter. Do you have the data on the Tabbi-Tech account? Eh, rich, poor, middle-class, it's all in how you carry yourself.
     
  14. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    Well said Oxygen. As a moderator, took you a while to show up in this neck up topics.

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    It is true but at the same time biases are always there. For example, companies usually never interview anyone outside the job spec. Yet when they can not find anybody, they are willing to take a chance, and when they succeed, they will say, I knew that kmguru is smart...

    There is really no solution to this problem. Only human interaction being at the right place at the right time and performance will count. However, as the culture gets older, the society is controlled in so many ways that it is difficult to break the mold. That is why people emmigrate to other lands because they can not prosper in their own country with the innovative ideas they carry.

    As I write this, I hear the TV in the background that they are blaming the poor security guards for the mishap. That they could not catch some plastic knives and box cutters. The combined intelligence in the media is falling like a block of concrete. (you know what I mean). If the security has to check the inside of every luggage, search body cavities and slice the shoes open, we are really in trouble. The terrorists have won.
     
  15. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    I worked in security for some high tech firms. They will always blame the over-worked, minimum wage security guard, or else the secretary. These same people that are screaming "Protect us! Protect us!" are the same ones who get huffy and short tempered if they aren't allowed to just breeze through security check points. I believe that we do need heightened security at our airports. I mean, seriously. SJC airport is an international airport, but the tower closes at midnight and there's no customs office. I would not want to see uniformed armed soldiers walking around using the intimidation factor to keep things right. I prefer the plainclothes approach.

    I also have a plan for the airplanes themselves. Isolate the cockpit. There's nothing a flight attendant might need to personally see the pilot for. If the pilot needs to get something to eat, the plane can use the tubes like they use at the drive-up window of a bank. Any communication can be done via two-way tv. The pilot and the head stewardess would be the only ones to have access to the cockpit key. For the stewardess to get the key, she would have to break a small window, like for a fire alarm. This would trigger an alert in the cockpit, as well as sending a signal to the ground so that the maximum number of people are notified of a situation. The cockpit crew could check a monitor and see what was going on to cause the alarm. If it's a hi-jacking or some such threat to the passengers, he could then trigger a sort of sleeping gas and knock out everybody in the passenger section and then safely land the plane at the nearest suitable airport. The pilot's key would not have to be so secure, so he could get up to go the bathroom or stretch his legs and so on.

    Just a thought. I'm curoius though. What does everybody else think?
     
  16. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    That is very true. But you know what, the terrorists will try something else. It is that burglary activity. If you are in a upper middle class neighbourhood, and have a big dog, you may not need an alarm system. The burglar will find the least resistance path to steal. That is why, you do not see much armed burglary at a rich house. They can get more money robbing a bank than steal the furniture or paintings - even though the paintings could fetch more money.

    Our terrorism model was based on several simple factors:

    Most conflicts will be limited to Europe and Asia.
    If someone shows up - there could be a small car bombing.
    and so on.

    Even now, there are many ways for a large organization that can do severe damage here if they had state support. So you take certain risks hoping certain activities wont happen. So, my feeling is that, in spite of what happened, concentrate on the little guy and solve the big problem through economic, political and military means. The reason WTC happened is because our government was sleep at the wheels and did not see the iceberg.

    During the cold war, both parties were careful about the nuclear arsenal. So we did not have accidents. So forget about these stupid security measures and let us go back to our usual business except some minor changes for the lone gun-man. Let the government do what it must - watch those foreign enemy out there.

    While you provide security, I do risk analysis for short and long term. Most people ignore time scale risk that is the result of one or multiple causes. So did our government.
     
  17. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    2,478
    Why is everybody pointing their fingers at the government? Sure, they're supposed to protect us, but I believe that there was no way they could have seen this coming.

    In the interests of Civil Rights, they stopped profiling people for observation. A lot of security was relaxed for the interests of Civil Rights. While this is not necessarily a bad thing, it was something that we all wanted. Did you know that actor James Woods saw some of the terrorists on a "practice run" on a plane he was on? He reported the suspicious behavior to the authorities, stating that he believed that these guys were up to something. They had taken an entire cross-country trip and just sat there. Nobody just sits there, especially on a cross-country flight. They sat rigid, looking tense and nervous. His report was dismissed by the airport authorities. Of course, on the 11th, they reallllllly wanted to talk to him.

    If their behavior was so unusual as to draw the attention of one man who wasn't even sitting very close to them, what does that say for the observation powers of the other people on the flight? Would multiple reports have caused the authorites to take a closer look? What other unusual behavior do we see in people on the street but keep quiet about? How much do we not notice? Honestly, in your wildest imagination, could you believe that somebody would actually sky-jack a plane full of civilians and fly it straight into a building full of people? In hindsight, we can say "Well, why not?" But before, could you have ever imagined seeing something like that that wasn't in a Mel Gibson movie?

    The American government was not asleep at the wheel. America was.
     
  18. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    So, are you saying - everytime I take my vacation on a cruise ship, I take my rubber boat with me?

    Drive than fly? Do not work in a tall building? Have a gas mask handy? Have a batch of antidotes for bioagents at all times?

    I am confused. Please explain.
     
  19. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    2,478
    I may be picking the wrong words, but we the people are the eyes and ears of the government, which can't be everywhere all the time. James Woods noticed strange behavior and reported. His was the only report, and they dismissed it. If just four more people had noticed or paid enough attention to their instincts to file reports of their own regarding suspicious behavior, might the government have possibly caught these guys before they could do any harm?

    In our heightened atmosphere, someone noticed an unusually high number of middle-eastern people suddenly taking an interest in crop-dusting. (I live in the Tri-Counties area of California, and things like crop-dusting are major components of daily life.) This sudden surge happened within the past couple of days. This was suspicious behavior was reported by more than one agency and, as a result, crop-dusters are currently grounded. Yesterday, a middle-eastern man was stopped for having improper licensing on his semi-truck. His manifests were checked to see that he and his company were licensed to haul whatever it was they were hauling (a common practice for the Highway Patrol). Turns out it was crop-dusting chemicals, the driver wasn't licensed to haul chemicals, and his license wasn't a Class A. To boot, he had no paperwork to show where he had picked up the chemicals from. The crop-duster wannabes and the illegal truck driver had something in common besides their ethnicity. It was their links to bin Laden's organization.

    This particular truck was headed for the Tri-Counties area, and I am very glad that a handful of Americans wasn't asleep at the wheel this time. They saw something suspicious and reported it. I shudder to think what was avoided.

    Do you have to be paranoid while considering your favorite activities? Hell, no. Do you have to keep an eye on the guy with the turban? Hell, no. Just use a little common sense, and to hell with worrying about what Miss Manners would think.

    I offer up an example we used in my Psychology class. In an experiment, nobody would give a ride to a mean looking man in a leather jacket, motorcycle boots, buck-knife, scraggly beard, and all the trappings of a low-life piece of scum. Although he stood at the side of the road for hours, nobody stopped. Well, duh. This guy looked like he could tear your liver out with one hand and feed it to you with the other.

    The experimenters then took this same person and put him in an elevator. Although fellow passengers had their reservations, they would get into the car with this person. They had subjected themselves to the same circumstances as they would have if they had given him a ride from the side of the road. Out of 100 people, only one saw this dangerous looking guy in the elevator and said "No thanks. I'll catch the next one."

    The one person who refused to enter the elevator car was asked by the experimenters why he had done so. He said that the person looked dangerous and he didn't feel safe. He listened to his instincts and potentially saved his own life. Of the ones who had reservations but got in anyway, which was 98%, they admitted to being afraid, but they said unanimously that they didn't want to seem impolite, antisocial, or paranoid. (Yeah, I know. That only counts for 99%. The final 1% said "Because I could kick his ass if he tried anything.")

    The same thing, I believe applies in society today. because we don't want to be seen as impolite, antisocial, or paranoid, we tend to ignore or block out unusual behavior. (James Woods didn't.) We are taught to accept diversity. All diversity means is difference, and not all difference is good. The person with the unusual name and accent and decorative tattoos is probably a very interesting person to talk to. The wide-eyed person with the twitchy mannerisms and hand kept firmly in one coat pocket should probably be watched.

    It's strange, but veteran waiters and waitresses do this on a regular basis. They can usually tell when someone is going to walk out without paying. They tend to watch these people and intercept them most of the time as they are bolting for the door. All they have to do is be aware of what's going on around them.

    Tomorrow you will probably see quite a few people. Notice their behavior and try to determine what you would consider within the bounds of normal behavior and what you would consider behavior that may be worth keeping an eye on. You don't have to be intrusive or paranoid, just observant.

    BTW-If you take your own life raft along on a cruise, I want to hang around with you! You're obviously someone who believes in being prepared!

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  20. kmguru Staff Member

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    Now, you are getting somewhere, Oxygen. I know you had it within you. Just did not come out. And that is exactly my point.

    I design Advanced Decision Systems. To make any decision, you have to have the relevant data. You have to convert that relevant data to information. From infromation, you create associations, threshold mapping and structured relationships. Then you can say to certain accuracy what cause will have what effect and "When". It is a time series data, that converts to "Knowledge". Proper management of that Knowledge will provide you with the wisdom to succeed.

    Normal people do not know the causes and the underlying data. That is why we pay $20 Billion a year for NSA & Company to collect them and make recommendations. Somewhere along the line, our politicians let us down, because if they had this information ahead of time, they did nothing about it.

    There have been report after report to beef up the cockpit doors, have sky marshals in the plane etc. Nothing was done. Now there is a high possibility that we will get hit by smallpox bioagent. Now we all will be vigilant. But the hospitals need to keep the vaccines handy. Without it, we are screwed. I am sending an email to my local hospital to ask if they are ready. You can do the same.

    Yes, we can do our part. But we need intelligence and methodology to do that. And I am in agreement to your last post.
     
  21. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    2,478
    Thanks for helping me get it out. I've been in a mental tizzy ever since learning that two people that my boyfriend had given tech support to on the afternoon of the tenth of September were found dead in the rubble of Tower One. His job has him in a position where he could have easily been one of the techs flown out to New York to handle whatever was wrong with whichever system. (His immediate supervisor was flown out to a ship during Desert Storm to repair a gun system on a ship while it was involved in combat. Yikes!) It really drove the situation home, having two of his co-workers killed in the attack.

    Scary times, these are, but as you say, if we have the relevant facts, we can make sound decisions even in the face of terror.
     
  22. Deadwood Registered Senior Member

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    386
    All good points but are hospitals actually allowed to have small pox vaccines?

    If I may...

    The US and Russia both have the small pox virus but it may be destroyed in 2002. As far as I know there still deciding. What you guys have is enough to wipe out the world entire population! But without it if there is an outbreak then a vacine would take longer to produce since you would have to isolate the virus. The problem is as with Nuclear weapons, there is no documentation as to who has these things. The virus could be in a rogue or third world country waiting to be used. If you've seen pictures of people who have small pox you will see how bad it is, this aint no chicken pox. The word small is deceiving, huge pox would be the correct phrase.

    Also, wouldn't sky marshals be a relatively cheap way to maintain air plane in-flight security?

    The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
     
  23. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    I am in favor of the sky marshalls. I also am in favor of using some kind of sleeping gas. I defined my idea in another thread (and was somewhat giddy to hear that something similar was actually being considered, although I doubt I can claim connection to the story I read about it in the paper), wherein the cockpit could feasibly be isolated from the rest of the plane. Any serious trouble, and an alert tells the pilot to check a special monitor. If the situation merits it, the pilot triggers sleeping gas and then lands the plane at the nearest suitable airport. The troublemakers then wake up in the loving arms of the authorities. There are always the risks of innocent passengers having a reaction of some sort to the gas, like if they had a sensitive medical condition or something, but a waiver could be signed before the tickets are sold to the person, or else they could check with their doctors before going on a flight where this gas might be used.

    Just a thought for a non-lethal takedown.
     

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