From Here to Economy Can capitalism be harnessed to solve environmental problems, or is capitalism itself the problem? http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/04/23/cox-economy/
new environment-saving technologies can be developed via self-interest. there are many inventions out there to help reduce consumption of gas, reduce emissions, decrease production of plastic, etc. it is in the G8's interest - to rid itself of corrupt Islamist influence and protect its constituents against hyper-inflation induced by some cry-baby tyrant's embargo of oil shipments.
Consumers are the problem! Capitalism is simply the process of giving the consumers what they want at a price that they'll pay ...nothing more than that. Capitalism itself is non-regulating ...the regulatory factors come from consumers. Let me say this and perhaps it'll be more clear: If the people of the world/region/nation/county were really concerned about the environment, they'd do something about it. Little or nothing IS being done .........so what does that tell you? Baron Max
i know that through-out the ages people have lived through many harsh conditions. some people are living like that now. when the oil runs out, if we won't have the technology to adapt to it, then we won't have petroleum-based products anymore. and we'll adapt - because we won't have any choice. and after we'll adapt, we'll get used to it and it'll become normal. Capitalism will continue to roam the land yet with out one class of products. what's the big fucking deal?
The big deal is the financial markets are fragile, and that petroleum is the basis of many classes of products; pesticides, fertilizer, plastics, autos, tractors, fuel... indeed the whole system of product distribution, food production, metal refining, mining, etc...
I agree capitalism isn't inherently anything but self-regulating, i just believe that it hasn't yet been harnesed to the benefit of the environment yet, because yeah, consumers really are the problem. At least in our portion of the world, as long as people still have the goal of having a house in the burbs, 2 cars in the driveway and 2.2 kids per home, we'll be consuming at unsustainable rates, expanding urban sprawl, deforesting, polluting, etc etc etc. The mindset needs to change, but how can that be done?
In a sense, it will work itself out. The cheap oil will run out, and such consumption will no longer be possible. It's worth a try to maintain capitalism, which has increased the standard of living for most westerners, but I don't know if that's possible.
Sure it is. It will probably require a little more work, as the raw material and power source won't be lying under our feet in conveniant oceans of black goo, but we will manage. Give me electricity and a source of methane and I will make you all the plastics, fertilizer, chemical fertilizer, foodstuff components, etc that you need. Really all you need is something organic to work with. Power is easy. We have 500 years worth of coal and an assload of fissionable material. Another Hoover Dam/ Tennessee Vally Accord or two might do wonders, as long as you are willing on giving up on anything actually living in that river. We can probably scrounge another hundred years off of various other sources. We might have to streach a bit for the complex organics. Agriculture might actually return to rural America as a source... if we don't just pay some third world goat herder to do it for us.
all i need to know is that anything beats living under a communist system. even in a capitalist world with zero oil there will be higher life standard and more variety and quality of products than in a communist system. if there are no more petroleum-based fertilizers, there will be the good old animal dung fertilizers that have been used for thousands of years. don't worry man. i really don't think the problem would be so bad. i mean, for a decade or 2 it would be hard, but only because we'll need to adjust. after we adjust, it'll become no big deal. new types of industries will spring up for investors to put ther money in, new powerhouse corporations will be born, it's no big deal.
That's just it, we can still strive for that and be environmentally mindful. The mindset that needs to be changed is not, "let's all just have 1 kid now", the mindset needs to be, "let's tell companies that we will only buy their product if it is environment friendly". Of course, right now, most environment-friendly products are more expensive. However, as it is with capitalism, as soon as companies see that in order to sell their product they must use enviroment-friendly products, and they all start doing that, prices will go down. They will discover new technology. We can still have the enviroment-friendly house, the hybrid cars, the kids. We can use recyclable products. We, as consumers, need to change our mindset about the standards we set for the products we buy. By doing that we will force companies to come out with better products. The worst part about it is that we have the technology, but since it is cheaper for companies to stay with what they are using, we are letting them by continuing to buy their products.
Precicely false. There has to be significant damage to the environment before we begin worrying about environment-saving technoligies in a truly crucialy self interest sort of way. By then its too late, damage has been done! Do you want to get to a point where we are despearte for environmental saving technologies? Could we even turn it around by then? The apparatus of capitalism left to its own deivces would respond far too late.
fortunately there are plenty of people who think the same way that you do, which is why these technologies are being developed and refined now, as opposed to when it's too late. actually, the technologies probably already exist, but there has to be a plan to implement them gradually. that is being worked on right now, i'm sure. governments develop contingencies for everything. a contingency plan for this is being developed or studied as we speak.
Your all wrong - there are no significant damages to the environment now , not any of consequence that is - any and all damages will fix themselves when alternative fuels are fully devoloped an exploited. Oil will never run out until then , in fact it will be obsolete and sell for 10 dollars a barrel. Put down the pipe girls... :bugeye:
Excellent point! And it reminded me of some farmers in the midwestern US who were having $$ problems, so they set up a "resort" for families to bring their little kids to see farming up close and personal. The "resort" was making more money than their farm ever did!! Now that's a bit scary, ain't it? Baron Max
One point that has not been made here is the filth and environmental destruction that existed under communism and still exists in communist China and other nations that lack free markets. Capitalism is pro-environment because it is the only system under which the general population will be wealthy enough to care about the environment. A clean environment is a LUXERY that only weathy nations can afford or even desire. When your children are hungry, you don't care about the plight of the spotted owl. This topic is discussed at length in this report: Threatening Its Citizens, Threatening the World: China's Environmental Destruction http://www.policy.house.gov/subcommittees/107/html/news_item.cfm.134.html
